Rega Couple 1 was a Klotz cable - if memory serve something like ac330 ?
Rega Isis / Osiris Balanced XLR Balanced Interconnect
- Thread starter John Little
- Start date
Rega Couple 1 was a Klotz cable - if memory serve something like ac330 ?
Craig B
Re:trophile
You can put it down to me being pedantic, however, it should be noted here that there exists no volume difference between the cables, only the balanced vs. unbalanced interfaces. The interconnects are just shielded wires, some better made than others. The absolute best quality Neutrik XLR shod 1m leads can be had for 20 quid each (see John Phillips link above). Anyone paying circa $US 2250. a pair for 1m cables with boutique Asian bling OEM XLRs on needs having their gullibility/susceptibility to marketing BS adjusted. (EDIT: toned down from 'head examined')
Craig B
Re:trophile
AC110, formerly "La Grange GY107", or just GY107. Plugs were Neutrik ProFi NF2C-B/2 on Couple. Couple 2 had Rega branded twist locking plugs. The current Couple 3 features Rean RF2C "Finger Groove" series plugs.
John Little
pfm Member
Interesting your opinion regarding the Frey, I was considering a Frey2. I have the SS version of the Isis so maybe there is a difference. I have 2 Cardas Clear Rev1 cables in my system, XLR (Isis) and RCA (TT). The Cardas RCA was clearly better than the Rega Couple when I compared them about a year ago. I ordered the XLR version after this comparison assuming the balanced was the best connection (according to Rega) and never looked back. The unbalanced seems to work better with the Isis in my system comparing now but I'm going to do extended listening between these cables over the next few weeks to see if my opinion changes.
AC110, formerly "La Grange GY107", or just GY107. Plugs were Neutrik ProFi NF2C-B/2 on Couple. Couple 2 had Rega branded twist locking plugs. The current Couple 3 features Rean RF2C "Finger Groove" series plugs.
I stand corrected, a great cable, have a few myself, those plugs are loverly, much preferred here vs Couple 2 plugs.
Couple 3 plugs not bad at all.
AKG
BOOMERSAURUS
The choice to go to CARDAS CLEAR interconnects was only the 1st step in the full Monty pathway. It also included a full cables loom swap-out of NORDOST FREY power cables to CC / CR , and finally to CARDAS CLEAR REFLECTION speaker cables for my HARBETH M30.2 XD speakers.
- (NOTE: the CLEAR REFLECTION model choice over the higher model CLEAR was a specific tip directly from Josh Meredith at CARDAS to tame unwanted room brightness from 1st reflections in a large glass wall listening room).
WHY DID I CHOOSE CARDAS CLEAR / CLEAR REFLECTIONOVER NORDOST FREY?
(1) ICs and speaker cables
- All-Cu cables instead of silver-coated…. Taming digital “edge” was the objective and it worked. This was the the trick in taming that ethereal “ digital brightness” or “digital edge” found some digital files through my BRYSTON digital player and stablemate DAC.The thick diameter CCR speaker all-Cu cables are a “warmer” sonic presentation than the silver-coated thin ferrule NORDOST FREYs .
(2) XLR over RCA ICs
- Balanced outputs specifically stated as THE preferred IC option for ISIS VALVE to OSIRIS linkage in the REGA manual
(3) Also, the HARBETHs liked them better overall …period. They REALLY open up further with certain beefy cables.
- I upgraded from an all NORDOST FREY loom to an al CARDAS CLEAR / CARDAS CLEAR REFLECTION loom . (all of ICs, speaker, and power) The new array step up in audio performance slam and dynamics was not subtle ….my HARBETHs are anything but “polite” ,, They boast great presence, robust dynamics and lotsa slam …. and … still have best in class midrange and ethereal soundstage.
NOTE: SPEAKER CABLES MATTER …. From Alan Shaw ( owner and designer of HARBETH)
I don’t drink a lot of his KoolAid pontifications but I followed his advice for all my new speaker cables upgraded from NORDOST to CARDAS .…. He was right on in my system!
” … So, the moral of the story is this: the most important factor of the loudspeaker cable that you should select is the amount of metal in the cable core. More metal means lower resistance. If the core is round (as most are) then the correlation is simple: the fatter the diameter of the metal core the better because the electrical resistance between amp and speaker will be lower.
Thin and really thin cores should be avoided regardless of how exotic the metal material is claimed as the lack of metal in the core conductor will increase resistance. That will reduce amplifier damping, effect the frequency response of the speaker and give unpredictable results that will vary from amp/speaker combination.
Do not be fooled by the diameter of the external plastic sheath: what matters is the metal content of the core. The more the better, without exception….”
Craig B
Re:trophile
Unless both you and @John Little have a different Isis manual than that which has been available since the product launch in 2009, the included interconnects referred to within are the original co-ax Couple with ProFi RCA plugs on. No mention of XLR being anything other than an option.
CORRECTION: Took a bit of digging to find, but apparently the Valve Isis manual mentions a preference...
AKG
BOOMERSAURUS
@Craig B
There are differences between the ss vs tube models. .
(1) - My ISIS VALVE manual is with its 2012 issue (the ISIS unit in its formats was launched in 2010).Even in the current ISIS VALVE manual, nothing has changed,
Quote:
- ANALOGUE XLR BALANCED OUTPUT – connection options.
Option 1: The Valve Isis is best used in a fully balanced system using balanced XLR connectors and leads. (Rega balanced XLR leads available from your Rega dealer).
Option 2: If using the valve Isis in an un-balanced system we recommend using the Balanced XLR output on the Isis connected via a un-balanced lead into the amplifier. (This lead is shown on the Rega website www.rega.co.uk)
Option 3: A high quality Rega „couple‟ (unbalanced) interconnect is supplied. However this output is not fully isolated, and therefore does not take advantage of the transformer isolation afforded by the balanced XLR output
- The XLR IC as the preferred linkage for the ISIS VALVE is repeated in the reviewer’s comments below:
https://6moons.com/audioreviews/rega2/3.html
“…When studying the manual for the on/off switch I came across an interesting recommendation from the manufacturer. Use the XLR outs whenever possible. They suggest doing so even if your amplifier is neither a balanced design nor sports even convenience XLRs to require XLR/RCA adaptors.…
(2) the ISIS s/s model versus the ISIS VALVE model have different DACs
(3);The VALVE model has its own bespoke 3-way digital filter tailored option setting = Digital filter feature in the back panel
as I understand it
- Filter 1 (off position) standard half band digital filter.
- Filter 2 (mid position) minimum phase digital filter.
- Filter 3 (on position) minimum phase with tailored response
There are differences between the ss vs tube models. .
(1) - My ISIS VALVE manual is with its 2012 issue (the ISIS unit in its formats was launched in 2010).Even in the current ISIS VALVE manual, nothing has changed,
Quote:
- ANALOGUE XLR BALANCED OUTPUT – connection options.
Option 1: The Valve Isis is best used in a fully balanced system using balanced XLR connectors and leads. (Rega balanced XLR leads available from your Rega dealer).
Option 2: If using the valve Isis in an un-balanced system we recommend using the Balanced XLR output on the Isis connected via a un-balanced lead into the amplifier. (This lead is shown on the Rega website www.rega.co.uk)
Option 3: A high quality Rega „couple‟ (unbalanced) interconnect is supplied. However this output is not fully isolated, and therefore does not take advantage of the transformer isolation afforded by the balanced XLR output
- The XLR IC as the preferred linkage for the ISIS VALVE is repeated in the reviewer’s comments below:
https://6moons.com/audioreviews/rega2/3.html
“…When studying the manual for the on/off switch I came across an interesting recommendation from the manufacturer. Use the XLR outs whenever possible. They suggest doing so even if your amplifier is neither a balanced design nor sports even convenience XLRs to require XLR/RCA adaptors.…
(2) the ISIS s/s model versus the ISIS VALVE model have different DACs
- SS: Two Burr Brown PCM 1794 digital to analogue converters, running in parallel dual mono mode ….
- VALVE The Valve versions uses a different DAC chip (Wolfson) to the SS (Burr-Brown)…. Wolfson’s WM8741 ultra high-performance digital to analogue converter
(3);The VALVE model has its own bespoke 3-way digital filter tailored option setting = Digital filter feature in the back panel
as I understand it
- Filter 1 (off position) standard half band digital filter.
- Filter 2 (mid position) minimum phase digital filter.
- Filter 3 (on position) minimum phase with tailored response
Craig B
Re:trophile
Now that we've narrowed the preference down to Valve Isis, I suspect that TB's differential tube output stage transformers might just suit balanced operation better than would a SS stage with transformers (or opamps) for floating balanced output.
This review by Jason Kennedy from back in 2010 is worth a read, if you haven't already...
AKG
BOOMERSAURUS
The REGA COUPLE interconnects are indeed just rebranded made-in- Germany KLOTZ 'La Grange' cable available off the reel in bulk at numerous vendors with NEUTRIK PROFI connectors. They are “okay” but not in the same league performance-wise as my prior NORDOST FREY XLRs, nor my current upgraded CARDAS CLEAR XLRs & CARDAS CLEAR RCAs (I also have the latter now paired with my BRYSTON BDA-2 DAC).
The REGA COUPLE RCA versions are included with both ISIS cd model players.
The REGA COUPLE RCA versions are included with both ISIS cd model players.
per flemming
Registered User
John Little
pfm Member
UPDATE:
I have an Isis SS/Osiris combo and two Cardas Clear Rev1 interconnects (balanced & unbalanced) and the supplied Rega IC unbalanced. The combo is powered by the Cardas Clear Beyond power chord.
Doing a proper comparison (only one IC connected at a time
the results are CLEAR (pun intended) and obvious: Cardas Clear balanced > Cardas Clear unbalanced > Rega IC unbalanced
The Cardas Clear cable unbalanced is significantly better than the Rega IC unbalanced. Better clarity and contrast in dynamics and tonality, nothing subjective IMO.
The Cardas Clear balanced was another step up, similar balance, just better like the noise floor dropped. The improvements are in the same areas. It takes the Isis to the level you would expect from a CDP this price, the balanced and Rega IC compromise the potential of the SS Isis.
My mistake was connecting both ICs (balanced & unbalanced) at the same time thinking I could switch the input back and forth. Bad mistake!
I have an Isis SS/Osiris combo and two Cardas Clear Rev1 interconnects (balanced & unbalanced) and the supplied Rega IC unbalanced. The combo is powered by the Cardas Clear Beyond power chord.
Doing a proper comparison (only one IC connected at a time
the results are CLEAR (pun intended) and obvious: Cardas Clear balanced > Cardas Clear unbalanced > Rega IC unbalancedThe Cardas Clear cable unbalanced is significantly better than the Rega IC unbalanced. Better clarity and contrast in dynamics and tonality, nothing subjective IMO.
The Cardas Clear balanced was another step up, similar balance, just better like the noise floor dropped. The improvements are in the same areas. It takes the Isis to the level you would expect from a CDP this price, the balanced and Rega IC compromise the potential of the SS Isis.
My mistake was connecting both ICs (balanced & unbalanced) at the same time thinking I could switch the input back and forth. Bad mistake!
AKG
BOOMERSAURUS
saureign
Active Member
Rega Isis Valve (which I've known from 3 years of ownerships) performs better with XLR outputs because it is designed as a real balanced machine, inside.
SteveG
pfm Member
I've done some testing of XLR vi RCA with my kit and initially the XLR sounds more dynamic until I realised it was because it was much louder. Once you adjust the volume to the same sound level I couldn't really notice a difference.
I've got a DAC connecting via XLR to my amp just now and in order to get the same volume as with the other DAC (on RCA's) I had to reduce the volume quite a but, from 20 to 15.
I've got a DAC connecting via XLR to my amp just now and in order to get the same volume as with the other DAC (on RCA's) I had to reduce the volume quite a but, from 20 to 15.
saureign
Active Member
Are you talking about Rega Isis Valve, or in general? In Isis case, XLR output clearly sounds better than RCA, in a real balanced system.
In general, XLR connection just doubles the signal vs RCA (+ and - polarity), and is used only for reducing electrical noise in the chain.
In general, XLR connection just doubles the signal vs RCA (+ and - polarity), and is used only for reducing electrical noise in the chain.
SteveG
pfm Member
Just in general and specifically today with my Krell amp.
Once had and those were just unlistenable
gez
pfm Member
Of course not. No amp/box/speaker manufacturer makes cables, as in actually makes them. Making a cable requires whole factories to draw wire, insulate it etc etc. It's an industry to itself and no hifi equipment manufacturer has the budget to invest in entire factories just to produce maybe a couple of hundred interconnect cables world wide. The wire/cable manufacturers make hudreds/thousands of km of product a year, it's the only way it can be cost effective. ALL hifi companies buy their cables from cable manufacturers who just brand it for them. Maybe, just maybe (but still probably not likely) Rega will buy reels of such cable and solder it to off the shelf XLR connectors. More likely though they get someone else to do even that.
Oh and the same is true for hifi cable companies, the names of which we all know. None of them make the actual cable, they have them made and then they produce the final product in house (and that's being generous) from other off the shelf parts.