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Rega Apheta 2 tracking pressure

T

Tiernoise

pfm Member
Calling Apheta 2 owners out there; At what VTF is your arm set?
Rega used to recommend 1.75 - 2.00g (https://web.archive.org/web/20191130003257/http://www.rega.co.uk/apheta-2.html#panel1), whereas the Apheta 3 is now recommended at 1.9 - 2.0 g, that is quite a smaller margin.

I usually track at 1.75g but now thinking I should try a higher pressure, what changes can I expect? I have got about 150 hours on it.
Apheta2 > P8 > Aria Mk3 > Elicit-R > RS7.

Thanks a lot!
 
Tiernoise said:
Calling Apheta 2 owners out there; At what VTF is your arm set?
Rega used to recommend 1.75 - 2.00g (https://web.archive.org/web/20191130003257/http://www.rega.co.uk/apheta-2.html#panel1), whereas the Apheta 3 is now recommended at 1.9 - 2.0 g, that is quite a smaller margin.

I usually track at 1.75g but now thinking I should try a higher pressure, what changes can I expect? I have got about 150 hours on it.
Apheta2 > P8 > Aria Mk3 > Elicit-R > RS7.

Thanks a lot!
Click to expand...
Why not just try it at 2g which is within the recommended range, see if you hear any differences.

Do you have a test record? Good for the OCD among us :)
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00630YC4G/?tag=pinkfishmedia-21
 
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Thanks! I think I tried 2g at the beginning but eventually settled at 1.75. I may have tried too small increments at first to be able to hear large differences, though.
No test record! I really should...
Interested to hear other people's views.
 
Back in the day, I would always track cartridges at their maximum recommended force, because I read somewhere that contrary to what you might expect, this caused less record wear, as the stylus was less likely to oscillate around in the groove thereby causing damage. That decision may have been vindicated, as most of my old vinyl, some of which I bought fifty years ago, still sounds as good as when I bought it!
Not sure why the majority of moving coil cartridges appear to require higher tracking forces than moving magnet cartridges. I know it’s to do with magnetics usually having higher compliance cantilevers, but why can’t m/c’s also use higher compliance cantilevers? I know that someone will now be able to enlighten me?
 
Ron Ellis said:
Back in the day, I would always track cartridges at their maximum recommended force, because I read somewhere that contrary to what you might expect, this caused less record wear, as the stylus was less likely to oscillate around in the groove thereby causing damage. That decision may have been vindicated, as most of my old vinyl, some of which I bought fifty years ago, still sounds as good as when I bought it!
Not sure why the majority of moving coil cartridges appear to require higher tracking forces than moving magnet cartridges. I know it’s to do with magnetics usually having higher compliance cantilevers, but why can’t m/c’s also use higher compliance cantilevers? I know that someone will now be able to enlighten me?
Click to expand...
The recommended tracking force ranges don't really differ between MM and MC cartridges nearly as much as they used to. Same with tonearm and cartridge matching, there has been some convergence upon the mid-range arm mass with MCs having increased somewhat in compliance and MMs typically having dropped off a bit since the days of über-low mass tonearms with über-high compliance MM cartridges on.

For a taste of how far things have changed on the MC front, compare the compliance and tracking force specs of SPU Classic (a 1987 reintroduction of SPU, that latter of which harks back to 1959) to any of their more recent MC offerings. For example, dynamic compliance of 8µm/mN with a tracking force range of 3.0-5.0g for SPU Classic, vs. mid teens on compliance and circa 2.0 to 2.5g VTF for many of their modern MC offerings.

Regardless, compliance and tracking force are inextricably linked, with lower compliance (i.e. stiffer suspension) requiring higher downforce, and higher compliance necessitating lower downforce. Partly this is to do with having the cantilever and stylus sit at intended angles to the record, but also allowing the stylus to intimately traverse the rocky canyon that is the groove. This is one area where an automotive analogy really applies in hi-fi, e.g. one doesn't necessarily want a Ford F250 truck suspension on a Morris Minor, and vice versa.

The unspoken reasons for keeping MC cartridge suspensions below a certain maximum dynamic compliance is that one doesn't want the delicate coil leads being flexed beyond their breaking points, nor the coils travelling beyond the median of the magnetic field established by the pole extensions (or directly, in the case of Rega MCs).
 
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Mine is set at 1.8 and I bought a Neoteck tracking force gauge to give me a second validation against the arm’s mechanical scale. That was probably 18 months ago as a set up then forget exercise and I know I listened at 0.5 increments from 1.75 to 1.9. I recall I listened to a song from three or four different albums for comparison.
 
Thanks to Ron and Paul for their input, and Craig for the explanation.
I know I should experiment more, but life being hectic et al...
I have so little time to listen to my music I would rather listen to more and different records than try and listen to the same song twice with a different VTF. So, if there is consensus among users, I would rather set it at that and forget.

Anyway, I listened to Circuit des Yeux's Io album last night at 1.83g in place of the usual 1.75 and it sounded bloody good. I could not tell if it was better than the last time I heard it at 1.75, though, since that was a few months ago.
 
When running in a new cartridge, I usually set the tracking force in the higher range within the tolerance to run in or loosen up the new suspension in the cart.
Say if tolerance is between 1,7 and 2,0, I first go 1,9 for the first two weeks.

After that I try both extremes, 1,7 and 2,0 in this case, and for me one of them sounds considerably better
than the other extreme.
So in my particular case, 2,0 tended to sound more shut in and less open,
to me indicating I had the suspension under too much compression already to work as intended.

So I knew the near optimal setting would be closer to the lower end of the tolerance rather than the upper.
In my case I ended up tracking it at 1,8.

I know I heard differences of 0,5 gr when testing in the past, but I'm not sure I do now.
I used to use test records, but can't be bothered now bc I just hear from normal daily listening if something sounds about right or not,
so I just use a good pressing of music I like and know well
and listen to a song I like a few times in a row until I have it fairly in the right range.
And that's good enough to me now.

I think that cartridges probably have little tolerances from production too (or might)
so I would not be sure even the same models have exactly the same tracking force demands.
With my carts in that range between 1,7 and 2,0 I mostly landed between 1,7 and 1,85
and up to now never between 1,9 and 2,0.

If you don't hear any difference in 0,5 gr changes, could be interesting to ask a younger person or child if they hear a difference or if one sounds better.
Haven't done yet, but could be an interesting experience for both sides..

Have a nice Sunday..
 
torstoi said:
I think that cartridges probably have little tolerances from production too (or might)
so I would not be sure even the same models have exactly the same tracking force demands.
Click to expand...
That is a good point! It might also imply that the Apheta 3 now have stricter tolerances than the earlier Apheta 2.
I realise I am closer to 230 hours on my Apheta 2, not 150 as told the other day.
Oh, and I could ask my 12 year old son, but he is not into music at all, the pesky boy!
 
Craig B said:
The recommended tracking force ranges don't really differ between MM and MC cartridges nearly as much as they used to. Same with tonearm and cartridge matching, there has been some convergence upon the mid-range arm mass with MCs having increased somewhat in compliance and MMs typically having dropped off a bit since the days of über-low mass tonearms with über-high compliance MM cartridges on.

For a taste of how far things have changed on the MC front, compare the compliance and tracking force specs of SPU Classic (a 1987 reintroduction of SPU, that latter of which harks back to 1959) to any of their more recent MC offerings. For example, dynamic compliance of 8µm/mN with a tracking force range of 3.0-5.0g for SPU Classic, vs. mid teens on compliance and circa 2.0 to 2.5g VTF for many of their modern MC offerings.

Regardless, compliance and tracking force are inextricably linked, with lower compliance (i.e. stiffer suspension) requiring higher downforce, and higher compliance necessitating lower downforce. Partly this is to do with having the cantilever and stylus sit at intended angles to the record, but also allowing the stylus to intimately traverse the rocky canyon that is the groove. This is one area where an automotive analogy really applies in hi-fi, e.g. one doesn't necessarily want a Ford F250 truck suspension on a Morris Minor, and vice versa.

The unspoken reasons for keeping MC cartridge suspensions below a certain maximum dynamic compliance is that one doesn't want the delicate coil leads being flexed beyond their breaking points, nor the coils travelling beyond the median of the magnetic field established by the pole extensions (or directly, in the case of Rega MCs).
Click to expand...

Really nice explanation Craig-thanks for being so clear!

Cheers, Jens
 
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