Recommendations for Linn-Naim Audio System Upgrade
- Thread starter vpm
- Start date
L&N republican
pfm Member
The cheapest way to get better bass(and much more) in your system is to change your nac a4 speaker cable to naca5,I can remeber that wasn't small change in sound in my LP12/72/160/Linn Kan system.Also check that your speakers are very close to wall,5cm.
Linn Troika (Expert stylus repaired) is better cartridge,also good way for biger upgrade for "small" money.I think that SH Klyde worth same as sh Troika,repair job is cca 300pounds.
I use 72 preamp with CB250,and some times ago I listen 282 peamp in my system-big upgrade too.You could consider 82 as a good sound improvement.
Linn Troika (Expert stylus repaired) is better cartridge,also good way for biger upgrade for "small" money.I think that SH Klyde worth same as sh Troika,repair job is cca 300pounds.
I use 72 preamp with CB250,and some times ago I listen 282 peamp in my system-big upgrade too.You could consider 82 as a good sound improvement.
Peter Stockwell
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I looked at this. They're pretty much replacing anything that can possibly be replaced, like re-manufacturing an E-type Jaguar, or some such. I would say that you have to really love your kit to take that route. In the UK, Witch Hat Audio does sensible servicing at sensible prices, but I can see how the back and forth with customs it's going to be a problem.
Music Lover
pfm Member
Not sure about this, never experienced this behavior with a worn cartridge.
The difference in volume between 9 o clock and 3 o clock is massive and if the cartridge is the reason, it likely ALSO should sound awful - not just lacking in output voltage.
I used Troikas and Akivas and they kept the voltage but started sounding tired when reaching the limit)
btw
Possible I misunderstood you but didn't you wrote that the issue with your system had been from day one?
Some very good points made already. Heres my take on things, although repeating points some others have already made. By the way my system is Olive 82/Supercap/250(rebuilt)
- The volume difference on vinyl suggests something is seriously mis-matched and may have been since Day One. Who knows, they may be the wrong phono boards.
- Back in the 80s the Hi-cap may have been the hot shot but a Supercap will give you a lot more of the things you like in a system (clarity, drive) although not sure if it will be compatible with your pre-amp.
- The prices quoted for rebuilding the 135s are huge. I fail to see why an amp would need that much work doing on it. If you had a near 30 year old sports car in good condition would you pay $$$$$ to have the engine totally dismantled and rebuilt or $$ to have the oil, filters & spark plugs changed ? Your choice and I think the car engine analogy is a good one. I doubt the difference between rebuilding a 135 and servicing a 135 will be that great (though there may be a small difference) in comparison to the other things you can change which will make a more noticeable and more cost-effective improvement.
- There are far more cost-effective servicing options around although not necessarily near where you live. Ive just had my system serviced and rebuilt by Mark at Witch Hat in the UK. Hes great to deal with and Im very pleased with the results of his work. His web site says that a service on a 135 costs UKP 250 which is about USD 400 (so USD 800 for the pair) and he can deal with the customs etc for international work. If youve got to ship the stuff anyway then an international journey to the UK probably isnt that much more expensive.
- Now a warning that the next thing I say will cause uproar among certain members of this forum and a flame war will undoubtedly commence. You asked for options and this is a valid one although less so for those of you across the pond. Read on at your own risk and only if you have fastened your seat belt, put on a safety hat and are wearing eye protectors. Also you must have signed an affadavit that you understand this will void the Naim warranty, crash the resale value and that a violent thunderstorm will immediately head your way from Salisbury. When my 250 was serviced I took up the option to have the Naim power amp boards replaced by Avondale NCC200 modules. This has cleaned up the sound, improved detail and given even more grunt at the bottom end. It might give you the extra bass performance youre looking for (although I suspect problems at the front end are more significant). Having this done at the same time as a service is very cost-effective. But a downside of this approach is that you cant reasonably compare with what you have already or try before you buy.
grahamdocman
pfm Member
All this above is sensible - again though I would reiterate point 5
Some of your options depend on how capable you are (or have access to somepone who is capabale) with a soldering iron - don't let this put you off these chnages are VVV easy to do.
From all the above, it does appear there may be a problem with your cartidge output or "amplification" somewhere along the signal path.
Once this is resolved you then seem to be considering other options:
Well worth considering: Avondale do a series up "kits upgrades" - some of which you can return if they don't deliver what you want - i.e. you can try it and see.
e.g the ASR module for the HiCap - IMHO a massive and very cost effective upgrade - you can return it of you don't like it and get your money back.
e.g Avondale 821a cards in your NAC 72 - the gain is not as high as the naim card, but if you have sorted the apparent signal problem using this should not be a problem - again Les offers a money back guarantee
e.g the Avondale NC220 cards
These are in addition to the full 135 upgrade kits (including replacement caps and key components) that Les used to provide (though I'm not sure they are still available).
Neil, I believe, has some 321, 322/323 and 729 cards that would simply slot into your preamp (no soldering) that are available on loan (though I'm not sure there is a 323K variant). Again VV well worth listening to.
All the above are very easy and simple upgrades with minimal risk apart from P&P (though some will suggest these are changes rather than improvements - but I and many would disagree).
These options will enable you to "listen and see" with your system in your own home and at your leisure and not under pressure.
If happy then this will free up some of your monies else where eg. TT arm, etc. If not happy - for minimal costs of postage you will have asked and hopefully answered a lot of questions
Hope this helps
Graham
so simply
I greatly appreciate all of the advice given from everyone who has responded. I would like to express some comments in response to what some of the most recent respondents had to say:
Speaker Cable-My speaker cable is circa 1984, black with Naim Audio and directional arrow imprinted on the cover in white. There is no stamp between the conductors on either side of the cable designating if the cable is NACA4 or NACA5. I can tell you that it is very stiff and when the cable direction is routed in reverse will create a 9" to 10" arc due to the stiffness. I was told by AV Options that early Naim speaker cable did not come with model designation imprinted on the cover. We are assuming it is NACA5 based on the stiffness.
323K Phono Board-While I see no reason to doubt what I was told by AV Options is installed in my pre-amp, I think I will open up the unit and see for myself. I know some of the respondents are skeptical as well. They did offer to take another look at the phono pre-amp board at no charge, less shipping of course.
AV Options High Service Rates-I did notice much more reasonable rates being offered in the UK for servicing of the Naim electronics, which is why I had requested your feedback for other service companies in the US. I really do not want to ship anything overseas when I am sure there are other capable individuals in the US. AV Options is the only Authorized Naim Service Center in the US, but I am sure there are other capable people.
Lack of Linn Dealers in my area-Southwestern Ohio-I had this conversation with AV Options yesterday, and I was told that due to business requirements/expectations imposed by Linn on their dealers, some had chosen not to carry their line anymore. So I would have to travel to Michigan to visit my closest Linn dealer. My local Naim dealer used to carry Linn, but after their separation has refused to service any Linn turntable that was not purchased from them. I purchased my Linn-Naim system 1 month before they even started their business and they were the dealer that installed my Klyde cartridge. They refused to check out my turntable a few years ago because I did not buy it from them. It made no difference that they installed my Klyde cartridge. That was not good enough. That soured me on their company and I would prefer not to do business with them. But like I stated in a previous post, I cannot get the US Naim distributor to call me so I can inquire about other dealers in the tri-state area (Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky). Out of curiosity, since it has been a few years and I am in the market to make some changes to my system, I am wondering how they will handle my turntable situation. They will probably try to sell me a different brand. Rather than speculate, I will probably have to visit them and pose my situation to see what kind of response I will get. Will they accept a partial vs full system sale and offer to help me with my situation?
Full range speaker vs speaker/sub-While I mentioned my possible interest in going the sub route, I agree 100% that a full range speaker exhibits better detail and tighter bass. That is why I loved about the Linn DMS Speaker System.
135 Rebuild vs Servicing Route-I agree with your analogy. I am skeptical if I will hear that big of a difference so is investing $2400+ for a total rebuild really worth it.
Why don't I just move on-Some respondents feel that I am only looking for comments that would recommend that I sell my system and move on. That is not true. I felt it best to obtain advice from other Linn or Naim owners prior to visiting any dealers so I would be a better informed customer and would be better apt in conversing with them about the audio equipment that they are selling, listen to their recommendations/options and work within a cost range that is feasible. A well educated shopper is a better shopper.
Also, as I have stated in an earlier post, the prices for the new Naim equipment here in the US are stratospheric, so as much as I would love to purchase some of their newer components, I can buy similar from other manufacturers at a more palatable although high price point. So that is one reason, I come across as unsure. It is more economics than the quality of sound. All of these posts mean nothing until I start visiting dealers. Your advice and comments have been very well received and informative.
Peter Stockwell
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That almost beggars belief, but it's a refrain that I've read about US Hi-end shops, in general (through the pages of Stereophile). Below a certain $$$$ spend you're not even on their radar.
OTOH, because, they are not Linn dealers, any more, maybe they're are afraid of malpractice lawsuits (kidding, a little, I am). I can well understand you don't want to do business with them.
There is the wild ass idea of going to a dealer in the UK (I know of at least one Leicester dealer who travels/travelled the world if the spend was big enough, as well as Phonography (moved at least, if not closed) that would do that). Back in the days when $1 was nearly £1 I bought stuff directly from UK dealers whilst residing in the US.