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Recommend me a preamp, please

I do wonder whether the disappointments I've experienced with passives is down to overall system gain.

For someone likely to play around with various poweramps, loudspeakers and particularly vinyl front ends, could the passive not prove to be a potential issue with the wrong combination?
 
merlin said:
For someone likely to play around with various poweramps, loudspeakers and particularly vinyl front ends, could the passive not prove to be a potential issue with the wrong combination?
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Maybe so. By coincidence all my kit is high-gain, the Leak is a crazy 125mv for full output (so can find hiss and noise in any active preamp!), the Quad 303 500mv, the Exposure* surprisingly high-gain sitting somewhere between the Quad and Leak, and the MEGs have a gain pot which I used up full with the passive. I also run very efficient loudspeakers. I doubt it would be as viable were I using low gain amps. The AS passive attenuator is calibrated and from CD, and with the (high gain) Exposure 2010 and Tannoys I'm running it at -40db, i.e. about 10 o'clock on a knob that starts at about 7:00. Tons of gain!

*I can find few technical details about the Exposure 2010 power amp, but I gather it was designed to add a bi-amping capability to the 2010 Integrated, which appears to have a passive pre, as do so many integrated amps these days (e.g. Densen Beat, Prima Luna etc etc). It's in the system as the Leak needs a service, as does so much kit I own at present!
 
Markus S said:
Dynavector L300 Mk II - the German Dynavector importer concentrates on cartridges, I don't think there's actually any distributon of DV electronics here.
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That is a shame - I would have thought the UK distributor would help but getting another dem might be tricky.

Aren't there any good low volume German manufacturers that we are unlikely to have heard of? I think something valvey, like a Balanced CAT would be fun.


Jason
 
Really, so much depends on budget.

I'm trying pre-amps at the moment, and I feel that true cutting edge pre-amps aren't cheap.. but when was the best of anything cheap?

Merlin's Vibe/Pulse is about as good as you get for its second hand value.

There are a couple of valve pre-amps I'd be interested in hearing - such as the coincident technologies statement pre - but in actuality, I don't see the purpose of using valves in a pre-amp; in terms of an engineering decision, what benefit is brought? Valve degredation, mismatching between valves, background silence of a pre - all for me personally point to solid state.

Another interesting looking pre is the latest DNM pre-amp. At approx 6-7k, there's a premium for it, and I haven't seen any used.

Markus - you mention ARC. To my ears compared to something like a Tom Evans or similar there is a definate sonic signature to them..although there are so many ARC pre-amps out there.. do you want that from a pre?

Seems like you're making a lot of compromises to get a balanced connection in your purchases. Are you sure this is going to make a significant difference to the audio quality you're hearing?

Cables such as these are readily available and can be made from expensive cable if you want... http://www.djstore.com/item/procabl68.htm

Passive? - I've played with them a lot. I normally have one somewhere at home. System matching is key with them, absolutely key. Its nice to have one as a spare for me, especially if you end up with something with valves in. Something bullet-proof is always nice. Why anyone would pay thousands for a passive is another question.. I certainly wouldn't, I think its an easy and simple DIY choice.
 
bottleneck said:
Really, so much depends on budget.

assive? - I've played with them a lot. I normally have one somewhere at home. System matching is key with them, absolutely key. Its nice to have one as a spare for me, especially if you end up with something with valves in. Something bullet-proof is always nice. Why anyone would pay thousands for a passive is another question.. I certainly wouldn't, I think its an easy and simple DIY choice.
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This thread doesn't seem to grasp what transformer coupled preamps are. They are not 'passive' in the sense that they use a transformer to couple source to power amp. There are no matching issues at all, apart from having enough gain. although that is rarely a problem.Some actually have a 6db boost. There is simply no easy link between a conventional passive and a transformer coupled preamp.
 
hi paskinn

Its best i think not to assume what pre-amps people have had, or have heard. In my own system I've had the Audionote M3 for example which uses transformers between the gain stages (some 10 of them I believe), an autoformer based passive and many others.

The m3 had a sonic signature (which some people may like of course), and the autoformer based passive wouldn't be something I'd reccomend in systems where an ordinary stepped attenuator passive has failed to produce the goods altogether.

If you meant something else altogether I apologise - I may have misunderstood completely. It is quite common :)
 
bottleneck said:
hi paskinn

Its best i think not to assume what pre-amps people have had, or have heard. In my own system I've had the Audionote M3 for example which uses transformers between the gain stages (some 10 of them I believe), an autoformer based passive and many others.

The m3 had a sonic signature (which some people may like of course), and the autoformer based passive wouldn't be something I'd reccomend in systems where an ordinary stepped attenuator passive has failed to produce the goods altogether.

If you meant something else altogether I apologise - I may have misunderstood completely. It is quite common :)
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I don't think that the analogy goes very far. The M3 (nice preamp!) is an active circuit, with power supplies, valves, transistors, capacitors, and some transformers. A TVC has no power supply, valves, transistors or capacitors.It is simply an attentuator with a great big (if done right) and very high quality transformer . So it has a tiny fraction of the parts for the signal to travel through. Distortion is vanishingly low, frequency response highly accurate.I've heard enough comparisons between pricey powered preamps and good tvcs to know that a tvc is probably the best, most accurate, way of tranferring the signal. However, we all like particular 'sounds' so some people wil prefer a particular active preamp (as I prefer a Shindo Monbrison to a MFA tvc). But if you want an accurate device,with virtually nothing to wear out or go wrong, then a top quality tvc deserves serious consideration.The best I know are Townsend and Music First. That's all...
 
£10K for a passive?

Jeez no wonder the industry is dying on it's feet.
 
merlin said:
I just use phono to XLR adaptors on one set of outputs. I do the same on the Metric Halo for rips etc. Absolutely fine.
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Phono to XLR adapters don't make for a balanced source, as you know.

Re-Joyce said:
Aren't there any good low volume German manufacturers that we are unlikely to have heard of? I think something valvey, like a Balanced CAT would be fun.


Jason
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Plenty. German manufacturers I'd be happy to investigate include Brinkmann, Burmester, Innovative Audio and Octave (in alphabetical order).

bottleneck said:
Markus - you mention ARC. To my ears compared to something like a Tom Evans or similar there is a definate sonic signature to them..although there are so many ARC pre-amps out there.. do you want that from a pre?
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No, I don't.

Seems like you're making a lot of compromises to get a balanced connection in your purchases. Are you sure this is going to make a significant difference to the audio quality you're hearing?
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No idea. I'm just going on the statements of others here. Which may or may not be wise.

Paul R said:
Can you get someone to lend you a Resonessence of Weiss DAC? Or perhaps an ADC/DAC pairing from M2Tech.

Check out the brave new world etc.

Paul
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The Weiss Dacs are not for me, their voicing is brighter than I prefer (given the choice between a DAC2 and a Naim Dac, for example, I'd take the Naim). Or I'd need to choose my speakers to tone down the brightness.

The Resonessence dac is interesting, and I could pair it with an M2Tech Joplin for vinyl, for example. But being limited to digital riaa is not a route I'd want to take.

The new world doesn't get much braver than the Backes & Müller ICE preamp currently, but it works best with B&M speakers and I may be a bit too conservative for that.

paskinn said:
If you have normal gain requirements then a second hand Music First TVC is possibly your best bet. They are as neutral as anything on the market, effectively 'invisible' and the transformer coupling means you get no issues with impedance matching.Because they have no electronicc parts, they are pretty wearproof. You could use one for years and lose virtually nothing.And while preferences are just that, an MFA preamp is noticably superior to an LS15 if you really do want something pretty 'invisible.'Many peopel don't...that's hi fi. Nothing wrong with a few well-chosen colorations.
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I've had a S&B TVC before. It was great in many respects, but it left me with the impression that there was something missing, a bit of energy and emotion, it seemed to mute the dynamics in music.

Thanks for all the responses. The result is that I will think for a bit about system architecture before making any decisions.
 
Ah, sorry. Didn't realise you wanted proper balanced circuitry throughout the system.

That rules out just about all of the exceptional preamps that I have had the pleasure of owning.
 
I don't care about the circuitry inside the pre. What I do understand is that the nCore likes to see proper balanced drive, i.e. +ve and -ve signal. It's not just about XLR connectors, hence why I was talking about inserting a balancing transformer between preamp output and nCore.

As I said, I need to think about system architecture. That includes whether I want to limit myself in my preamp choices because of an amp that I haven't even heard yet.
 
Still ought to be giving the Wyred 4 Sound MicroPre a look . . . this from the blurb:

“We began by designing a fully balanced circuit from input to output which actively rejects noise and lowers distortion. The perceivable sonic benefits of the balanced architecture will be evident in both lower background noise and finer detail. The analog volume control design is very similar in principle to the award winning STP-SE. Additionally the pre-amp has been equipped with completely separate right and left channels which starts with the power supplies. As a result of the absolute channel separation and excellent channel matching our new mPRE produces holographic imaging that is apparent even at low listening levels. The fully balanced, dual mono, dual differential circuit design is unheard of at this price point. It implements over 80 FET's which are paralleled up for much lower noise and increased current output. The character of this unit is beautifully transparent and natural.”

I don't know of anything else with that spec at the £899 price.
 
I love my Krell KRC-3, fully balanced, exceptionally neutral, great timbre & drive. Quite a few on eBay generally under a grand.
 
Top of my head I can think of one amp that offers single ended inputs only and balanced outputs. The Puresound L300, tasty pre by all accounts.

I had a similar search on about a year ago. The Pre's I had my eye on were the Music First and Bel Canto Pre3. I didn't hear either in my system but did hear them in other systems, a full Bel Canto setup sounded lean to me through speakers I know though the Pre has a good rep. The Music First offered up all the detail expected but rather missed the emotional content in the systems I heard it.

I ended up trying an Ayre K-5, latest version. First week I was wondering what I'd done, it was a dog, murky, dull, gray - you get the picture. A couple of weeks in though and it came to life and developed a beguiling tonal richness. To late, by the time I'd begun to enjoy it I'd spotted what I really wanted and found a buyer for the Ayre.

In came an Aesthetix Calypso, it took some tube rolling to get it singing and I'm thrilled. It does what all the good tube pres seem to excel at, soundstage depth and width. Not cavernous like Arc Ref pres offer up but beautifully proportioned if the information is on the disc. It's transparent, its great tonaly, it just gets out of the way and lets the music flow.

Thats four pres that meet your requirements, its the Aesthetix that floats my boat but they're good pre's by all account.

Good luck finding one that suits you.
 
Silly me. I can install balancing transformers inside the power amp case, if I decide on the nCores. Some amorphous core Lundahls would be nice.

Balanced output is no longer a requirement for my next pre. Makes things easier. However, before I do anything, we need to get in a few more quotes for works on the apartment. Let's see if there is a hi-fi budget left after that.

Btw, I'm sure the L300 is fantastic, but it's also one big mutha****a. As I'm going to a much smaller room, compactness is a virtue, as per the opening post.
 
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