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QUAD 44 PREAMP: UPGRADES

Eguth, You need to modify your post above as you have either lost it or miss quoted yourself. The human hearing goes up to about 17KHz or about 20Khz when at your best in your teens. most compact cassette tapes will struggle to get anywhere near flat at 18KHz.

If you are older then 15K may be the limit. To suggest you can hear anything up to 200K is ridiculous.

Mike

Alllright.

I hold my hands up. Guilty.

I WAS being a tiny bit naughty.

I will leave my original post as is, since it is what I intended to say. I expected to be ribbed about this, but being blasted instead is just as much fun,really.

Best
 
Yesterday, I was playing Pink Floyd through a spare system in the hall, PC, A&R A60 and home-made (carefully) LS3/5a clones.

The cat was most interested, ears pricked up. It may well have been hearing stuff that we cannot!
 
Radfordman
"...Yesterday, I was playing Pink Floyd through a spare system in the hall, PC, A&R A60 and home-made (carefully) LS3/5a clones.

The cat was most interested, ears pricked up. It may well have been hearing stuff that we
cannot! ..."

This promises to turn into a good diversion from the main entertainment. I add my own bit.

Although I am not a 'cat' man I do have a feathered friend resident not far from my listening room. She, unlike the last one I had, does not particularly like Reggae, but absolutely LOVES Strauss waltzes.

It takes all kinds of birds to understand music fully.
 
Eguth, I do wonder. How is the original post of any point? It's not funny and you seem to be posting as a serious commentator.

perhaps you should change the colour of your posts to red nose red when you are being amusing.

Who do you want responses from? You won't be getting any more from me....
 
Just as, with the 'arcing due to low frequencies getting through the preamp' point, you are skating over the matter and missing the point.

No one suggested that the frequencies led to arcing; it is the excursions required by these that lead to contact with the high voltages and then arcing. So, as for the power supply, it is not a question of whether it "works or does not work at all".

The matter at issue is my view that the '44 p/s is

"...barely adequate for (etc.)..."

You have skated over and apparently missed this.

We shall have to agree to disagree on the description 'feeble'.

I agree, however, with you that it works. If not, please return it under guarantee.

Nothing is being 'skated over' - you were given a full explanation but haven't understood it.

Arcing is directly related to excessive voltage on the stators - at any frequency.

You appear to be basing your comments on the Quad PSU by looking at it.
It certainly looks feeble compared to some, but unless you understand and have tested the results delivered driving the circuits then I fail to see how you can call it feeble.
 
Eguth, You need to modify your post above as you have either lost it or miss quoted yourself. The human hearing goes up to about 17KHz or about 20Khz when at your best in your teens. most compact cassette tapes will struggle to get anywhere near flat at 18KHz.

If you are older then 15K may be the limit. To suggest you can hear anything up to 200K is ridiculous.

Mike

Even that is being optimistic. Most over 40 cannot hear much past 10KHz
 
Robert

Most of your posts on this thread all sing along to the theme tune…
“My Quad 34 does not need upgrading or improving…”.

What is the Serial Number of your Quad 34 preamplifier?
 
I don't think my 44 needs 'upgrading or improving' either.

And for the record, I have had some serious full-function pre-amps, and some reasonable phono stages in my house.
 
I don't think my 44 needs 'upgrading or improving' either.

Seconded, thirded and fourthed. To say that it is only suitable for choral and chamber music is, I'm sorry to say, complete piffle. I've found the 44 to completely adequate for every type of music I've ever tried. But if the man wants to fix something that manifestly isn't broken, that's his affair.
 
To repeat my experience, the biggest gain comes from removing the masses of caps in the signal path. To mess ab out with new opamps etc makes no big difference. Beefing up the psu caps is also a good idea. If it's not good enough, get a 99pre or some other preamp...
 
Robert wrote:
Nothing is being 'skated over' - you were given a full explanation but haven't understood it.

Arcing is directly related to excessive voltage on the stators - at any frequency.

I didn't read a "full explanation" in any of your posts Robert. And I think it may be YOU who don't really understand. You are right that excessive voltage at any frequency will cause arcing, but given that the bass frequencies will cause a much larger excursion of the panel, and that it's only the air gap that insulates the high potentials from arcing, frequency must surely play a part in the equation too. I have no idea if Quad limited the bass frequencies of their pre amps for that reason, but given that they probably hoped you'd use their excellent speakers with them, it seems quite likely, and I've heard it mentioned many times before Eguths post.

You appear to be basing your comments on the Quad PSU by looking at it.
It certainly looks feeble compared to some, but unless you understand and have tested the results delivered driving the circuits then I fail to see how you can call it feeble.

It seems that many on here are quite happy with their 34/44s and that's quite fine. But what's the problem with trying to get something better out of it? If you look on the DIY forum, it seems to be mainly about power supply upgrades for various equipment- especially preamps. Are they all wrong as well? Or could it just be that there really is something fundamental in the quality of the power supply to the performance of a preamp?

Stick with your stock 44 if you like (you already admitted you have buggered about with it anyway!) but why berate someone who is sharing their experience of improving the performance of theirs?

Mark
 
Robert wrote:


I didn't read a "full explanation" in any of your posts Robert. And I think it may be YOU who don't really understand. You are right that excessive voltage at any frequency will cause arcing, but given that the bass frequencies will cause a much larger excursion of the panel, and that it's only the air gap that insulates the high potentials from arcing, frequency must surely play a part in the equation too. I have no idea if Quad limited the bass frequencies of their pre amps for that reason, but given that they probably hoped you'd use their excellent speakers with them, it seems quite likely, and I've heard it mentioned many times before Eguths post.

It seems that many on here are quite happy with their 34/44s and that's quite fine. But what's the problem with trying to get something better out of it? If you look on the DIY forum, it seems to be mainly about power supply upgrades for various equipment- especially preamps. Are they all wrong as well? Or could it just be that there really is something fundamental in the quality of the power supply to the performance of a preamp?

Stick with your stock 44 if you like (you already admitted you have buggered about with it anyway!) but why berate someone who is sharing their experience of improving the performance of theirs?

Mark

I didn't read anyone being berated by Robert.

Regarding the bit in bold, is that really what he's doing? His posts seem more like a slagfest of a reputable manufacturer and everyone who owns a 34/44.

Note: I don't own anything by Quad and never have.
 
I have a problem with enthusiastic amateurs who know better than the professional engineers who designed a piece of equipment.

I have seen (and heard) a number a pieces of quality equipment totally ruined by 'hot-rodders' who don't know what they are doing (or what they are trying to achieve).

There's just so much bullsh** in this hifi business without adding to it.

It's so clear from the endless discussions that so many people don't know what the target is that they are aiming for, hardly surprising that they can't hit it.
 
Maybe berate was a bit strong, just seems strange to me that when someone tries to share their experiences they get a load of negatives thrown at them for why they shouldn't be doing it rather than genuine interest in his findings.

Regarding the bit in bold, is that really what he's doing? His posts seem more like a slagfest of a reputable manufacturer and everyone who owns a 34/44.

I don't suppose Eguth would be writing this if he wasn't still using a Quad 44.

Mark
 
I don't suppose Eguth would be writing this if he wasn't still using a Quad 44.

If you ask me, he appears to have stopped using a Quad 44 a long time ago. The pre-amp he now uses bears little resemblence to anything that Peter Walker would have designed...
 
Maybe berate was a bit strong, just seems strange to me that when someone tries to share their experiences they get a load of negatives thrown at them for why they shouldn't be doing it rather than genuine interest in his findings.

Mark
Hi Mark,

As I said, eguths posts come across to me as slagging off anyone who disagrees with his pov about the Quad 44. Maybe it's a forum or language thing, I don't know, but that's the impression and I've no axe to grind, I don't own any Quad.

I haven't read the replies toward as being generally negative either. Specifically the replies from Robert have looked like serious efforts to counter the assertions by eguth, this to me is a positive effort to engage with him on the subject yet he just won't engage. For example, he dismisses out of the hand the files made available by Robert. Yes, there are variables involved but if the Quad preamp is as bad as eguth claims I would expect to hear mush coming from one of Robert's files but it simply is not the case. If eguth can tell me what variable it is that has rendered the file from Robert that was taken from the Quad pre to sound as good as the direct rip via EAC, well I'll be interested in that but I don't expect any serious exchange with him. He has his agenda and is unable to see beyond it. I think there is some dogma going on here.
 
May I say that I take all the criticisms of my thread and my posts so far with good humour and no hard feelings.

There are so many points that have been made in the last day that I can't reasonably answer all without straying too far from the topic that is this thread: upgrades to a Quad 44.

However, there are some points I would like to make in response.

I do think I should say that I am neither 'slagging off' anyone- whether they agree or disagree with me- nor do I consider that to be a sensible interpretation of anything I have said. I am strongly critical of the early Serial Number '44. That does not make my points into a "slagfest".

I say this to confirm that I am open- minded enough to allow for others disagreeing with what I say, with my approach or with what I hear. I did start this thread by going out of my way to point out that different listeners hear things differently.

Moving on, now, to a question that I choose to address in this post....

"...If eguth can tell me what variable it is that has rendered the file from Robert that was taken from the Quad pre to sound as good as the direct rip via EAC, well I'll be interested in that but..."

This is a LOADED question. It presuposes that the listener will hear the two sounds as equally "good". And that the reason is a 'variable'! And it implies that Robert's needle drops prove that his Quad 34 does not require any upgrades. The point could be made (but hasn't been) that a direct demo in a listening room might confirm the needle drop result. If this happened, it would still only prove that the sound of some CD tracks played though a particular version of the '34 are not adversly affected by the '34. What it doesn't prove, or seek to prove, is that that particular '34 is as good, better, or worse than some other preamp. To do this the demo would have to use several CDs with different music, CD players, preamps and systems. Why bother? If you don't agree with me that the early Quad '44 is a poor performer no demo is likely to convince you otherwise. And I, of course, am primarily concerned with the sound of the MM module, not CDs.

Even if I had listened to the drops (again, I haven't) and had heard no difference between the two this would be besides the point. Whatever is heard by whomever cannot have been without the variables I identified in post #99 under item (vi). I gave several instances of variables that, when present, detract from the veracity of needle drops as a means of showing differences between sounds.

If one demonstrates via demos that do not go through computers and that use the same headphones, or the same speakers in the same listening room- rather than ones that use different ones- then we are on to a better chance of proving something. Putting the sound through two computers first, by itself, could nullify the demo and is the most serious objection to needle drops.

I would have thought it patently obvious that I have no quarrel with anyone who does not wish to modify anything, nor with anyone who is perfectly satisfied with the sound of any piece of equipment, Quad 44 or otherwise.

That said, I am hardly the only one in the world that modifies equipment. Indeed we have a DIY room on pfm that is devoted to this activity; and a good thing too!

My own approach is to modify if I can, if it is worth while financially and in other ways. In my own system I have left nothing unmodified save a couple of MC transformers and one (1) cartridge. By modifying- both my own mods and mods carried out by others for me- I have obtained a system that it vastly better than the original items and at a cost many times lower than what I would have had to pay to get equivalent or better items.

I can't help but notice that for every point made on this thread about my upgrades or improvements (whether in agreement or by way of improving these further) there are many more that are concerned, primarily, with maintaining that no modifications are needed. Has anyone forgotten that The Acoustical Manufacturing Company started modifying the Quad 44 preamp shortly after it first went into production?
 
Brian
"^ That is about as far off the point as it's possible to get "

Unworthy of any response.

But, to "^" I can add -about your previous comment:

"....Specifically the replies from Robert have looked like serious efforts to counter the assertions by eguth, this to me is a positive effort to engage with him on the subject yet he just won't engage. For example, he dismisses out of the hand the files made
available by Robert...."

I did not dismiss these out of hand. On the contrary I have discussed Robert's approach to this thread more than once, including my view of his attempts to prove things via needle drops. I gave my reasons, in detail,for not regarding these attempts as worth any further consideration.

Moreover, I have already said that I think Robert:
i) has got hold of the wrong preamp in terms of the topic of this thread; and ii) he is not concerned with my upgrades to the early version '44. Neither are you, for that matter.

I have also pointed out the sequence of events running from low frequencies going from the preamp to arcing, though this is not directly relevant to this thread. Markse has explained Robert's misunderstanding of this sequence very well.

Who is it that is dismissing things 'out of hand'?
Seems to me that it is YOU!

I try to make an effort to keep the thread on track. Doing this involves selecting posts to which to respond according to their relative importance.

I consider that Robert's posts don't often have a lot to do with the purpose of this thread, though I have already said that I have given him credit for pointing out:
i) that a review of the '44 contains test results that I agree are excellent, and
ii) that Robert has made what I termed a 'useful' contribution by pointing out that the later versions of the CMOS electronic switches have a better spec.

I am still waiting to hear from him, the serial number of his '34. Upon receipt of this I may engage with his views further....but I don't promise!
 


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