Puzzling results with ATC SCM50ASLT loudspeakers vs. previous system

[gez]

Just to be clear: I'm not saying ATC are bad speakers, far from it they are obviously (very) good speakers. Just that they have a reputation that isn't justified, almost entirely due to their pro origins as far as I can see. They're often put up on a pedestal that isn't deserved.

My only real point here was that : I'm not surprised that someone who had a preconceived idea that ATC would magically transform their system, wasn't blown away in reality. They are very good speakers, but they're not magic speakers.

 

[Woodface]

Just to be clear: I'm not saying ATC are bad speakers, far from it they are obviously (very) good speakers. Just that they have a reputation that isn't justified, almost entirely due to their pro origins as far as I can see. They're often put up on a pedestal that isn't deserved.

My only real point here was that : I'm not surprised that someone who had a preconceived idea that ATC would magically transform their system, wasn't blown away in reality. They are very good speakers, but they're not magic speakers.

People have different tastes but ATC have a great reputation for solid reasons, they've been in the domestic market for as long as the pro. We get people eulogising about Rega, makes me want to barf at times & they are far from magic.

As an aside who is on your pedestal?

 

[cooky1257]

Just to be clear: I'm not saying ATC are bad speakers, far from it they are obviously (very) good speakers. Just that they have a reputation that isn't justified, almost entirely due to their pro origins as far as I can see. They're often put up on a pedestal that isn't deserved.

My only real point here was that : I'm not surprised that someone who had a preconceived idea that ATC would magically transform their system, wasn't blown away in reality. They are very good speakers, but they're not magic speakers.

Which ATC models have you owned and what did you replace them with?

 

[darrenyeats]

Just to be clear: I'm not saying ATC are bad speakers, far from it they are obviously (very) good speakers. Just that they have a reputation that isn't justified, almost entirely due to their pro origins as far as I can see. They're often put up on a pedestal that isn't deserved.

My only real point here was that : I'm not surprised that someone who had a preconceived idea that ATC would magically transform their system, wasn't blown away in reality. They are very good speakers, but they're not magic speakers.

I try never to object to subjective opinions, and I happen to agree with the second half of your post hence my like. (The first half, I'm not sure what reputation is meant but in any case it seems opinion so I don't flame.)

Subjective impressions of SQ are always valid in my book.

 

[Matthew J]

My only real point here was that : I'm not surprised that someone who had a preconceived idea that ATC would magically transform their system, wasn't blown away in reality. They are very good speakers, but they're not magic speakers.

I wouldn't be surprised either.

 

[krenzler]

For a company like ATC the distinction between Pro and Consumer chiefly refers to the visual design aesthetic of the boxes. They don't believe in a specific sound that is better for either. A good drive unit is a good drive unit.

 

[krenzler]

And of course certain type of monitors like SCM25A and 45A for studio orientation but still the same philosophy.

 

[darrenyeats]

I wouldn't be surprised either.

Hah.

 

[Joe]

they have a reputation that isn't justified, almost entirely due to their pro origins as far as I can see.

ATC pro speakers are not PA speakers ( though some venues have utilised them as such )

Their pro range are just their domestic range with a cheaper finish to the cabs.

 

[duckworp]

Is the interiority of local streaming from a NAS compared to CD replay generally experienced by folk and what do they do to counter it (apart from going back to CDs)?

When I first began ripping CDs and playing the file from a USB hard drive and also streaming from Qobuz, the CD sounded better. After a few changes to the digital end of the system, cables and so on, and meddling with the settings on the streamers, they now sound absolutely identical, obviously playing the same master through the same DAC. I use Roon for playback. Which incidentally has full DSP capabilities so if you do decide to measure your room and apply DSP to your ATC system then one of the easiest methods is to use Roon.

 

[evand]

I’d love to hear these set up in an actual room!

It's been so long I feel the same way. I'm based in Surrey if that's anywhere near your neck of the woods.

Respectfully ( as an SCM50 owner ) I nowhere used the word "loud" . I thought that I was being very measured in my response ?

I also said that the room would be my suspect for the OP's opinion of his speakers......that or just his taste in how he likes his sound to 'sound'.

Yip, I was responding to 'larger ATC's are not great at low ( ish ) volume'. In my previous room my 100's were great at low volume (background listening whilst focusing on work related tasks etc.), so I think it pretty much comes down to the room. When I first unpacked my 100's in a 7m x 5m brick and plaster room with a carpeted concrete floor and sofa it sounded a lot like the OP described. I'd even go as far as to say it was unpleasant, at any volume, and there was little bass. I can understand why the OP found his ears are ringing - SCM50s will have no problem energising a room that size and with all the sound reflecting off the walls, ceiling and floor it's likely louder than one might think.

Room treatment (absorption panels at first reflection points, diffusion on front and back walls and chunk traps in all 4 corners of the room) changed that and minimised the room's interfering with what the speakers were producing. Adding the chunk traps truly transformed the sound in that room and allowed me to appreciate just how good the 100s are. No speaker's capabilities would be revealed in that room if left untreated.

 

[Jens]

Your system, though 'cobbled' together isn't exactly budget gear, the Alectos were £2k a piece in 1997- todays price allowing for inflation is anyone's guess but conservative estimate is £4 k so that's £12 k worth of amplification incl the Orca, factor in the 'new' price of R50s and you are well into ATC territory. So on reflection maybe you shouldn't be too surprised. Or disappointed

That's what I reckon too. You've already got a good system that changing speakers hasn't really improved. I'm not surprised. I'm running active Briks which have many of the same drivers and they sound great to me, especially when music gets complicated. I suspect you'd get more bang for your buck by improving your source. Think about the massive leap in quality when you're out watching a live event and the band replaces the streamed interval music. Same amps, same speakers (albeit much lower volume), big difference in sound quality driven by the source. On my system I get similar but smaller contrasts when comparing tuner<CD<LP.

 

[Matthew J]

It's been very interesting to read some of the comments about my old system. No one has said that it was crap! What has surprised me is the lack of dramatic improvement in the sound quality (no I am not "blaming" the ATCs!). Yes the room's acoustic are bad and yes the source components could be better, and my expectations were misguided, but even when those factors have been accounted for as best as I can, the difference between the two systems is not as great as I had expected.

Given my old system was better than I realised, a (probably rhetorical) question that is nagging me more and adding to my (nice to have) dilemma is: just how much potential was left in the old system? Yes, the ATC system has more ultimate potential, but I feel there's unfinished business with the old system and the R50s in particular. The previous owner meant well with some of his modifications but I have always wanted to revisit those, and the prospect of external point-to-point crossovers is an interesting one, plus the mass and distribution of the wool lining the transmission line has a marked effect on balance and sound quality.

I can understand why the OP found his ears are ringing - SCM50s will have no problem energising a room that size and with all the sound reflecting off the walls, ceiling and floor it's likely louder than one might think.

I think you - and all the others who have have offered room treatment advice - are correct. The Alecto/R50 combination is effortlessly punchy and dynamic but the ATCs are on a different level and the listener is unaware of the increased energy going into the room, even at the same measured average pressure levels.

I'm running active Briks which have many of the same drivers and they sound great to me, especially when music gets complicated.

I noticed one PFM member's avatar showed a pair of loudspeakers with a familiar bass drive unit,, which of course was from a pair of Briks and so I did quite a bit of reading on here about those and various projects that were going on (while exploring Level 42's back catalogue - man some of those albums sound good). So the R50s were composed of a set of drive units that were well respected in their day and still have the chops in 2024.

 

[Phyztech]

What has surprised me is the lack of dramatic improvement in the sound quality (no I am not "blaming" the ATCs!). … the difference between the two systems is not as great as I had expected.

It will always be the case with just a speakers upgrades. At any show you will easily find 20k, 50k, whatever the price speakers that will be far below the expectations of what that money should sound. Because ultimately the speakers are not top component that defines sound quality. Majority of modern day 2k standmounts are already enough (if they fit the room obviously).

 

[Matthew J]

One of the best systems I ever heard was at the Wam Show in 2022. A pair of £100 QAcoustics Q10, sub, Quad 404 amp, miiniDSP, a laptop computer and treated room. Total cost probably under £1000 but the best sound of any system there.

 

[Columbo]

It will always be the case with just a speakers upgrades. At any show you will easily find 20k, 50k, whatever the price speakers that will be far below the expectations of what that money should sound. Because ultimately the speakers are not top component that defines sound quality. Majority of modern day 2k standmounts are already enough (if they fit the room obviously).

Funnily enough £2k was exactly the price point I found to deliver a nice sweet spot of good SQ vs price. Not to say you don't get more if you carefully shop above that price point and know what you're after, you do. But definitely the point where I noticed diminishing returns starting to kick in after dabbling with about half a dozen stand mounts.

 

[Woodface]

It will always be the case with just a speakers upgrades. At any show you will easily find 20k, 50k, whatever the price speakers that will be far below the expectations of what that money should sound. Because ultimately the speakers are not top component that defines sound quality. Majority of modern day 2k standmounts are already enough (if they fit the room obviously).

What a load of absolute tosh, speakers make the biggest difference. Are you Russ Andrews in disguise

 

[Tigerjones]

The only person to disguise themselves as Russ Andrews was the baby Jesus. They hold similar powers.

 

[Matthew J]

BTW: it seems that the buzzing heard when the ATCs were connected to the Trichord Orca via RCA --> XLR cables was due to the pre-amp itself. I tested the same cables with the RCA output from the Topping and SMSL DACs and heard no buzzing.

 

[Tigerjones]

How many pages will we get of "it's everything else in your system that's wrong, not the ATCs" ?

Maybe you just don't like the ATCs.

This is my thinking. Personal things speakers. Maybe go back to your old speakers or try something else. Never understood this ‘change a million things until you like the sound’ approach. Life’s too short.