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Puzzling results with ATC SCM50ASLT loudspeakers vs. previous system

jamjar784 said:
As you've probably realised by now an open question like this invites all the pro-ATC users to pile in blaming everything else but the speakers! I would strongly recommend you believe and trust your ears. You've made valid comparisons between ATC's and R50's with the same sources. I would suggest as some others have the ATC's have a frequency response which may not suit your preference and room. If you had asked ATC themselves they'll tell you to treat the room first. However this glosses over the fact that the speakers are designed to have a flat frequency response in a professional recording studio which means in the average room you get a treble tilted response. On very good recordings having not much treble content IME this produces superb results with excellent sound staging, dynamics and detail, but with average recordings compression and other artefacts become irritating because they are reproduced at a higher level than intended.
You have already got some helpful advice on this thread if you filter out the noise. I'd suggest you try and get a dealer demo of ATC versus Tannoy Kensington GR or similar to confirm the suspicion that ATC's are not your cup of tea, and check Acoustic Energy Corinium speakers which just might be! Also the "soundstage collapsing" problem isn't what I would associate with ATC so you might also want to try out the problem recordings with a better source. It could be the recording is actually poor and the R50's mask the issue while the ATC's shine a massive spotlight on it. But speakers first!
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spot on IMHO
 
jamjar784 said:
As you've probably realised by now an open question like this invites all the pro-ATC users to pile in blaming everything else but the speakers!
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I don't think happy ATC actives owners have actually ruled out the fact that they may not be to the enquirer's taste! We're just exploring whether other factors may be at play instead of or in addition to the spekaers' sound signature.
jamjar784 said:
I would strongly recommend you believe and trust your ears.
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It's too early for this! It could mean ditching the ATCs when the ATCs are not the issue. Room, upstream playback chain, speaker positioning etc are all in the mix.
jamjar784 said:
You've made valid comparisons between ATC's and R50's with the same sources. I would suggest as some others have the ATC's have a frequency response which may not suit your preference and room. If you had asked ATC themselves they'll tell you to treat the room first. However this glosses over the fact that the speakers are designed to have a flat frequency response in a professional recording studio which means in the average room you get a treble tilted response. On very good recordings having not much treble content IME this produces superb results with excellent sound staging, dynamics and detail, but with average recordings compression and other artefacts become irritating because they are reproduced at a higher level than intended.
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This is quite an assertion. I've never noticed any treble tilt; my room is not the largest and the speakers are positioned far too close to French windows behind... And treble tilt wouldn't cause the "collapsing" of complex music.
jamjar784 said:
You have already got some helpful advice on this thread if you filter out the noise. I'd suggest you try and get a dealer demo of ATC versus Tannoy Kensington GR or similar to confirm the suspicion that ATC's are not your cup of tea, and check Acoustic Energy Corinium speakers which just might be!
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Spot on.
jamjar784 said:
Also the "soundstage collapsing" problem isn't what I would associate with ATC so you might also want to try out the problem recordings with a better source. It could be the recording is actually poor and the R50's mask the issue while the ATC's shine a massive spotlight on it. But speakers first!
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đź‘Ť
 
Matthew J said:
My loudspeakers previous to the R50s were Linn Keilidhs (all other components the same) and a good deal of my music collection was revealed as quite imperfect. This might may not please some people here, but I can say that the R50s, within the context of that system and room etc, were a seismic upgrade over the Keilidhs: every aspect was better (and yes, I know how that sounds).

I will say though that I had heard the Keilidhs on the end of a very expensive Naim system and they did sound very good.
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I had Keilidhs for a good while & liked them a lot. Replaced them with SBLs which were very different but much preferred overall.

My ATC40s are different again but the best sound I’ve ever had at home. Different can be good or bad.

I hope you get a good outcome in the end.
 
The suggestion of giving it a month and to move the speakers away from the rear wall are sensible. I would bring them 50 cm into the room asap and see what happens to the soundstage. Also introducing a pre amp would be beneficial. I’ve never heard a digital volume control in a dac that was better than a hi end pre amp.
 
If it were me, I'd be getting a mic and measuring the in room response you are getting. You can guess all you like about why things are the way they are, but you'll be chasing your tail.

Buying a measurement mic and taking time to learn about room acoustics, speaker measurements etc, has helped me greatly! I haven't bought a piece of hifi equipment in over 2 years... I used to not be able to go 2 months without new gear!
 
Another thought, surely there must be a dealer involved in this transaction? Get advice, get them to check all it ok.
 
of equipment As some others have said, I really doubt direct-from-DAC is an issue. I have a Hugo TT2 driving 5m of balanced cable to my ATC50Asls.

Room measurement and then room correction would be my suggestion. I’d sell every piece of equipment in my system before the Trinnov Amethyst. There are of course cheaper options.

I also have no room treatment per se but have a heavy rug and bookshelves. Lots of glass and tiled floor so not ideal (rented house in France) but I wouldn’t want to listen in a windowless dungeon anyhow

Salman
 
Matthew J said:
ancient hifi
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Because ATC is similarly ancient hi-fi. They haven't introduced a new drive unit design for god knows how long and their basic designs date back to the mid 70's. They're trading on their reputation to be blunt and haven't been at the forefront of speaker design or performance for a long time now.

About the only thing they have going for them is their power handling, which still remains better than the majority of "hifi" speakers, but that's just the result of a pro speaker maker entering the domestic hi-fi market. The same can be said of various other pro studio monitor manufacturers. Power handling in and of itself doesn't make a great speaker.
 
gez said:
Because ATC is similarly ancient hi-fi. They haven't introduced a new drive unit design for god knows how long and their basic designs date back to the mid 70's. They're trading on their reputation to be blunt and haven't been at the forefront of speaker design or performance for a long time now.

About the only thing they have going for them is their power handling, which still remains better than the majority of "hifi" speakers, but that's just the result of a pro speaker maker entering the domestic hi-fi market. The same can be said of various other pro studio monitor manufacturers. Power handling in and of itself doesn't make a great speaker.
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You are right . Over rated rubbish
 
gez said:
Because ATC is similarly ancient hi-fi. They haven't introduced a new drive unit design for god knows how long and their basic designs date back to the mid 70's. They're trading on their reputation to be blunt and haven't been at the forefront of speaker design or performance for a long time now.

About the only thing they have going for them is their power handling, which still remains better than the majority of "hifi" speakers, but that's just the result of a pro speaker maker entering the domestic hi-fi market. The same can be said of various other pro studio monitor manufacturers. Power handling in and of itself doesn't make a great speaker.
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“About the only thing going for them is their power handling”? What a ridiculous claim. It’s ok not to be a fan!

You seem to suggest “Trading on their reputation” is being lazy. It implies change is always a good thing. ATC are quite justifiably trading on their hard-earned and excellent reputation: wouldn’t you?

I had ProAcs for decades and it was only ATC actives which could displace them. They’re a great speaker and that has nothing to do with power handling (of the amps inside them); it’s the crossover-before-amps config, the quality of the drivers and the way the whole is assembled from the parts.

Clearly I’m the fan boy you aren’t!
 
gez said:
Because ATC is similarly ancient hi-fi. They haven't introduced a new drive unit design for god knows how long and their basic designs date back to the mid 70's. They're trading on their reputation to be blunt and haven't been at the forefront of speaker design or performance for a long time now.

About the only thing they have going for them is their power handling, which still remains better than the majority of "hifi" speakers, but that's just the result of a pro speaker maker entering the domestic hi-fi market. The same can be said of various other pro studio monitor manufacturers. Power handling in and of itself doesn't make a great speaker.
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As opposed to what?

Bit of a daft observation, you don’t like, fine, but they bring out updates reasonably regularly. Companies that constantly bring out new models & special editions get criticised also.
 
I take back everything I said about air. In fact, ATC150s are used in all three of AIR Studios mastering suites.

www.mixonline.com

AIR Studios Opens Two New Mastering Suites in London - Mixonline

The new facilities have enabled AIR Mastering to move its entire operation to AIR Studio’s Lyndhurst premises.
www.mixonline.com

Obviously they didn’t get the message about ancient hifi rubbish. What do they know.
 
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gez said:
Because ATC is similarly ancient hi-fi. They haven't introduced a new drive unit design for god knows how long and their basic designs date back to the mid 70's. They're trading on their reputation to be blunt and haven't been at the forefront of speaker design or performance for a long time now.

About the only thing they have going for them is their power handling, which still remains better than the majority of "hifi" speakers, but that's just the result of a pro speaker maker entering the domestic hi-fi market. The same can be said of various other pro studio monitor manufacturers. Power handling in and of itself doesn't make a great speaker.
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I once heard someone describe ATC speakers as being for grown ups and having had many other speakers in my decades of hifi ownership I now sort of know what they meant. I have no desires at all to chase after any other speakers to replace my ATC150 actives.
 
gez said:
Because ATC is similarly ancient hi-fi. They haven't introduced a new drive unit design for god knows how long and their basic designs date back to the mid 70's. They're trading on their reputation to be blunt and haven't been at the forefront of speaker design or performance for a long time now.
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Which speakers do you consider to be at the forefront of design and performance?
 
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