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Product Positioning - Forum Marketing

There's two sides to any dispute/debate. Marketing won't ever stop, and people are free to say what they wish. Therefore the only avenue left to dispel conflict is for the snipers to cool it.

Almost no-one is going to buy a product that's self promoted by it's designer and bigged up by shills anyway, and those who are impressionable enough to do so are probably going to like what they have bought. Especially as the general consensus seems to be the AV! range is pretty decent for the money.

Haters gonna hate...that's their loss. The rest of us can read with our eyes open.
 
Robert said:
Really?

Faux bullshit is par for the course with audiophilia surely?

Just enjoy it and as Martin says, don't play the game.
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I really can't take any of it seriously anymore,* not just avi but any of it, i've had to unlearn so much and the final straw was a £25 dac that just twatted over my last belief in anything hifi related... Without these threads pfm would become dull and we'd have to invent stuff...


*I'd hoped that was obvious with the copious images of pony's spurted all over pfm.
 
I really don't get it TBH. Unless a manufacturer have some method of forcing me to buy their products through the power of their "shilling", "spamming" or what have you I don't see the problem.

Most of the industry people post useful information. The half wits soon draw attention to themselves.

Some forums are dead against it, others allow anything. Does anyone have figures as to how many sales have been generated through covert marketing?
 
technobear said:
adiep, which jealous hifi manufacturer do you work for?

Clearly you have an agenda as everything you have so far posted is baloney and you have ignored all the posters who have in various ways pointed this out, only to keep making the same point.

Put up or shut up!
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I dont work in the hifi industry. Im not aware of anyone saying anything to me, apart from in this thread. That person being you....
 
images
 
JTC said:
I'm not.
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To my mind pfm functions a lot better than most forums in this regard as we have a very clearly defined commercial Trade Account facility, i.e. it is in my / the site's interests to keep things clear, open and above board and also to jump hard on any parasites / freeloaders who try to circumvent the site's rules and pitch their wares covertly at my expense. Good honest out in the open trade members are a huge asset to the site IMO, we should warmly welcome them.
 
I don`t see what the problem is here - of the two threads mentioned one is just a slanging match between a speaker manufacturer and people who for various reasons dislike him or his products. It is all completely predictable by now and gives a few people pleasure and harms nobody. Not likely to sell much kit though.
On the other hand the MDAC thread is about peoples experience with the kit and is supported by the designer giving much help and advice to users. This would seem of benefit to everybody concerned and were I in the market for a DAC I would seriously consider a product which many people are keen on and where you can access the designer directly. If good customer service fuels sales the why complain?
Or have I completely missed the point?
 
Alan Brown said:
There's two sides to any dispute/debate. Marketing won't ever stop, and people are free to say what they wish. Therefore the only avenue left to dispel conflict is for the snipers to cool it.

Almost no-one is going to buy a product that's self promoted by it's designer and bigged up by shills anyway, and those who are impressionable enough to do so are probably going to like what they have bought. Especially as the general consensus seems to be the AV! range is pretty decent for the money.

Haters gonna hate...that's their loss. The rest of us can read with our eyes open.
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Good points well made Alan.
 
I was thinking of pointing this out myself and agree with the OP. I'm really quite happy to read that other pfmers are thinking the same.

I have a close friend who works in PR. PR agencies spend all day going around forums like this posting nice things about their client's products. They get paid for keeping threads relating to their kit going as long as possible. Agencies will judge a campaign based on the number of people who click on and view these threads. It's clearly happening here.

I would love to not see a stealth advert for a DAC every time I view the audio room.

At least we could change the thread title to 'John's DAC' or similar, that way the direct product reference would be removed from the front page... Somebody somewhere might loose a bonus and the debate (if genuine) could continue.
 
Barrymagrec said:
I don`t see what the problem is here - of the two threads mentioned one is just a slanging match between a speaker manufacturer and people who for various reasons dislike him or his products. It is all completely predictable by now and gives a few people pleasure and harms nobody. Not likely to sell much kit though.
On the other hand the MDAC thread is about peoples experience with the kit and is supported by the designer giving much help and advice to users. This would seem of benefit to everybody concerned and were I in the market for a DAC I would seriously consider a product which many people are keen on and where you can access the designer directly. If good customer service fuels sales the why complain?
Or have I completely missed the point?
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PR and customer service are not quite the same. Were the DACs not given away to pfm users at a discount in the first instance? It's no wonder then that there are so many on here with nice things to say about them.
 
Dan K said:
I was thinking of pointing this out myself and agree with the OP. I'm really quite happy to read that other pfmers are thinking the same.

I have a close friend who works in PR. PR agencies spend all day going around forums like this posting nice things about their client's products. They get paid for keeping threads relating to their kit going as long as possible. Agencies will judge a campaign based on the number of people who click on and view these threads. It's clearly happening here.

I would love to not see a stealth advert for a DAC every time I view the audio room.

At least we could change the thread title to 'John's DAC' or similar, that way the direct product reference would be removed from the front page... Somebody somewhere might loose a bonus and the debate (if genuine) could continue.
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Yeah ok :rolleyes:

Maybe we need to change every thread title so it doesn't mention the product name, just in case someone gets an idea to try said product ?
 
Dan K said:
I would love to not see a stealth advert for a DAC every time I view the audio room.

At least we could change the thread title to 'John's DAC' or similar, that way the direct product reference would be removed from the front page... Somebody somewhere might loose a bonus and the debate (if genuine) could continue.
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There is a trade discussion room and I believe the qualifier for entry is that the thread discussing a particular product or company much be initiated by that company. If a non trade member starts a thread it goes in the general audio room.
That's my understanding of how it works generally.
The only issue comes when a fan starts a thread, since arguably this is little different.

The only way to prevent this would be tighter control over the forum, and I wouldn't like to see that since it attacks one of the main attractions of pfm - freedom to say whatever you want without partial interference from admin/mods. it would be a shame to see that suffer when all that's required is to ignore thread which you dislike.

The answer to this is exactly the same as that for the recent discussion about too much 'objective' talk.
Read the threads you like, ignore those you don't.
Follow the posters who interest you, ignore those who don't.
 
Dan K said:
PR agencies spend all day going around forums like this posting nice things about their client's products. They get paid for keeping threads relating to their kit going as long as possible. Agencies will judge a campaign based on the number of people who click on and view these threads. It's clearly happening here.
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I'm not convinced Ashley has the available funds to employ a PR agency to keep his threads alive. I doubt whether John W does, either, and even if he does, I don't get the impression that his company is the sort which uses such techniques.

I'm sure it goes on, but not necessarily in this field. The cost/reward equation for the piddling little backwater which is specialist hifi looks likely to make it uneconomic, at best, in this industry. If it happened, I might point the finger at various other, rather bigger, companies which have been known to employ aggressive marketing techniques in the past, before I point it at the (with due respect to them) tiddlers.
 
Who are these PR companies? I've been very nice to many companies and I have received very little in the way of freebies. I've had a damaged amplifier repaired, some new feet for my amplifier, a grill for a speaker and that's it.

I've given free material to one trader who still uses it on his website, and not a sign of money or free bits. Another trader uses a design that I suggested.

If there are any PR companies reading this then give me a call. mike.
 
Dan K said:
....I have a close friend who works in PR. PR agencies spend all day going around forums like this posting nice things about their client's products....
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Nicely put. Its very common on investment forums too, places like iii and advfn are full of some real shill, pump and dump merchants, scary stuff.
 
adiep said:
Honestly, why are we allowing these guys to plump up their marketing threads so for weeks on end they remain in the top 10 threads. Its obviously being manipulated. The MDAC and now the AVI thread. Cant we just close them?
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Have you learned anything as to why from the thread?
 
adiep said:
Honestly, why are we allowing these guys to plump up their marketing threads so for weeks on end they remain in the top 10 threads. Its obviously being manipulated. The MDAC and now the AVI thread. Cant we just close them?
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Because they are immebsely popular. Just look at the number of hits.

The short answer is not to view them if you disapprove of them.

Chris
 
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