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pre-amp for audio innovations second audios

Z

ziggy72

pfm Member
i need a pre-amp and am on a limited budget of around £400 max (used). i have a NAIM CDS2 CD PLAYER, AUDIO INNOVATIONS SECOND AUDIOS AND SNELL J2 ON PIRATE STANDS.
i've been looking around the usual used markets but am unsure what will suit best. any suggestions?
 
wait and save until an AI 1000, L1 or L2 pre turns up (check for the phono stage - if needed at all, of course) - can't spend your money any better :) OR art audio's or woodside's pre-s are (almost) equally as great, of which there are some at eBay now...
 
a series 1000 would be great as well as a visual match but i haven't seen one advertised for a long long time. i had one along with a first audio about 6 year ago. i regret selling them which is why i've bought a pair of seconds and still searching for a pre-amp.
 
the 1000 pre was passive on its line inputs so would be an expensive purchase that you wouldn't need to switch on if you bought one exclusively for CD replay.

2nd Audio's really do need a whisper quiet pre with low or no gain.
 
You could make your own passive pre then - or connect your CD directly to the power amps if it has adjustable gain output.
 
pure sound said:
the 1000 pre was passive on its line inputs so would be an expensive purchase that you wouldn't need to switch on if you bought one exclusively for CD replay.

2nd Audio's really do need a whisper quiet pre with low or no gain.
Click to expand...

so a passive pre would do the job?
 
Yes, although I'm not the biggest fan of them. There are various types of which my favourites are probably based around autoformers. Tribute and Intact Audio make these although whether there are non-DIY versions, I don't know.

Alternatives include resistive attenuators either using a conventional potentiometer (ALPS, Noble etc) a stepped attenuator or even one based on LDR's (light dependent resistors, search for Eva II from DIYParadise.

Also popular are transformer volume controls (TVC's) but I've yet to hear one I really like. Some people swear by them though so try to hear one if possible. Promitheus, GlassHouse (from HiFi Collective) and Music First Audio (amongst others) do these.

One other possibility gaining in popularity is the BL Audio LP1 which is a battery operated active pre (of sorts) although I've yet to figure out quite how it works.
http://www.cattylink.com/page199.html
 
Hmm..I've just read the very limited info on the BL site about the LP1 - they say it uses two transformers only and that the act like a giant moving coil cartridge - how is that supposed to work then?
 
pure sound said:
Yes, although I'm not the biggest fan of them. There are various types of which my favourites are probably based around autoformers. Tribute and Intact Audio make these although whether there are non-DIY versions, I don't know.

Alternatives include resistive attenuators either using a conventional potentiometer (ALPS, Noble etc) a stepped attenuator or even one based on LDR's (light dependent resistors, search for Eva II from DIYParadise.

Also popular are transformer volume controls (TVC's) but I've yet to hear one I really like. Some people swear by them though so try to hear one if possible. Promitheus, GlassHouse (from HiFi Collective) and Music First Audio (amongst others) do these.

One other possibility gaining in popularity is the BL Audio LP1 which is a battery operated active pre (of sorts) although I've yet to figure out quite how it works.
http://www.cattylink.com/page199.html
Click to expand...

Ive done a little homework here, and am currently using the tribute autoformer. Tribute are about to bring out their autoformer in a boxed up already to go pre-amp. Intact do one in a case on request, and also Bent Audio do a remote control version of the Intact Audio autoformer too. So now, 3 options for one of these.

DIY is still the cheapest way to get them going, but not everybody has the skill.

Hifi Collective have only one left of thier top transformer passive, which uses massive C-cores. This is good too.

I am finding my tribute lacks the punch and dynamism of an active pre-amp, but also foregoes the unwanted ''colour'' to the sound so many pre-amps add, whether it is wanted or not.

For the amount an autoformer (AVC) passive costs to build DIY, I could not imagine getting a better active pre-amp, which simply costs a lot of money in parts.

I have visions of ending up with two pre-amps, but at the moment this is my favourite option (the tribute).

I have tried the lightspeed passive. This one was a little strange for me. It pins you to your seat as if you've been hit by lightening. I found it rather unpleasant!. Almost full volume with just a couple of notches on the control didn't appeal either. It is 'straight wire with gain' though.. but whether you like the experience is another matter.

A resistor based passive can sound great too. I dont like them as much as the autoformer. I like them better than the lightspeed thing though, to my tastes. Of course, there is much variety in the quality of resistors. 'top' resistors, and you're in AVC territory, so it's really a matter of which presentation suits you.

SpeedySteve picked up a used 'prometheus' passive for under £150. This is dirt cheap for a transformer passive, and would be hard to beat for this kind of money. Good luck finding one so cheap though :)

Caio
 
YNWOAN said:
Hmm..I've just read the very limited info on the BL site about the LP1 - they say it uses two transformers only and that the act like a giant moving coil cartridge - how is that supposed to work then?
Click to expand...

and what does the battery power supply actually do?

Someone sent me an internal pic. There is a grey ceramic block (un openable) with wires coming out of it. There must be some kind of active stage in there although the blurb says not. The attenuation is done by a Noble (usually very good) potentiometer.

An interesting if mysterious device & supposedly very good sounding.

(I get the impression that the person who wrote the Cattylink page really doesn't know what is going on within that product.)
 
Yeah, if there are no active components - then what IS the power supply for. is a coil powered by the power supply and then modulated by the music signal - inducing a signal in another coil?
 
anybody know how different the sound is between an innovations L1 and L2? i've noticed that the L1 has a switch on the rear to change from low to high gain too
 
Both have the High/Low gain switch. The audio circuit is actually the same albeit using Jensen paper in oil caps in the L2. However, the L2 also has a buffered tape output (another ecc82) and a shunt regulated power supply using valves. The L1 has a simpler un-regulated supply.
 
i'll be using the NAIM CDS2 as my only source so not bothered about the other inputs. so they will sound the same?
 
No, the regulated power supply if set up & working properly adds a bit of extra oomph to the L2.

But I heard an L1 recently & it still did sound very nice.
 
i've found a review of an audion cd1 pre-amp which hifi choice says performs better than a concordant excelsoir on test through the line stage. anybody know much about it?
 
This is probably (?) a magnetic amplifier. Nothing new. These things have existed since the discovery of electomagnetism.. Most likely the power supply biases the transformer a bit (increases the amplification provided by the transformer). My knowledge of magnetic amps is limited so I shouldn't say more but if I were to guess, that's what I would guess it is.
The biasing requires an extra winding, so most likely the transformers have 6 wires coming out of them (one input, one output and the biasing coil). Too much biasing of course will cause distortion so probably the extra amplification offered is limited - most of it will come from the transformer itself.
Two transformers for two channels. Nothing magic.
 
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