Yep, transients from the reservoir caps. Think about it. Where would it come from if the audio transient coincided with the mains cycle being at zero volts? The value of the fuse most certainly has more to do with the transformer inrush current at switch on.
Power Cables. Are they overhyped? Part II: Electric Boogaloo
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Yep, transients from the reservoir caps. Think about it. Where would it come from if the audio transient coincided with the mains cycle being at zero volts? The value of the fuse most certainly has more to do with the transformer inrush current at switch on.
adamdea
You are not a sound quality evaluation device
No surely the answer is "from hitherto undiscovered quantum effects."
[I'm pretty sure DV was making the same point as you Alan]
Whaleblue
Southbound
The annual system/pictures thread suggests otherwise.
[edit] I take this back as I didn't read the post correctly and thought it was regarding HiFi systems. That said, there is even the odd pic of cables/mains regens etc. in there!
Jim Audiomisc
pfm Member
It is also perhaps worth pointing out that 'medical grade' mains filters for fitting to equipment have a market big enough to make them a standard type of filter which you can buy from many companies, retailers, etc, at quite modest per-item prices with quantity discount breaks, etc.
Perhaps also worth pointing out that the RF input impedance of the mains inlet of most kit PSUs will vary *during each cycle* of the mains. Quite likely that the wall socket impedance at RF will, also given the other PSUs attached elsewhere. This is one of the problems with the argument presented by RA and BD re their cables acting as 'filters' actually based on cable characteristic impedance (which *doesn't* vary like this).
BTW where does your "often" come from? I made the point that 'CAT' systems may have dedicated mains supplies, etc. But a lot of other hospital kit has a normal wall plug and lead and can be moved about. And given all the equipment around (not fixed) I'd expect a fair bit of RF to be present. Thus it makes sense to have an RFI filter at the mains inlet of each sensitive bit of kit.
Lee T
pfm Member
Give a few examples where the market has thrived for 30 years with a product that can scientifically be proven not to work.
You will need to provide links to actual data otherwise it's personal opinion, as is your post.
You seem to be assuming that most people who purchase hifi are idiots, I always seem to find the opposite when I meet anyone interested in this hobby, most seem very well adjusted, intelligent folk.
Lee T
pfm Member
What would be a sensibly priced filter that actually works at removing rfi/noise from the mains.
Lee T
pfm Member
Read post 673, save me the bother.
We even threw in a Naim amp for good measure, wrote down our findings (all my friends are non audiophiles, zero interest in anything hifi related, need to point this out) & we did rather well at determining when the Belden was included & when not, it was quite a simple exercise tbh, when in place, definition of instruments were clearer, bass was firmer & the overall sound was more direct, when not, a slight rounding off in these areas took place, a softening of the image, a slight slackening of the bottom end & the overall sound was a little distant by comparison, it reminded me a little of when I hung a few canvas paintings on my wall to reduce flutter echo, similar effect to the sound. I hate to use a hifi term, but the sound tightened & became more together.
My friends , although they heard a difference, stated they cannot understand why anyone does this, it sounded just fine without, if a little better with, which sums things up nicely I felt. The Nait 3 was easily the best sound of the evening with it's standard cable in place.
This particular cable is shielded with a drain wire attached to earth at the mains plug.
I also need to point out I have never tried a cable above £30 so couldn't comment.
Julf
Facts are our friends
Lee T
pfm Member
Naim Nait 3
Rotel RA-04
Rega Brio3 initially
It proved way too easy with the Rega so we reverted to the Rotel from there on in.
All budget stuff with the Nait 3 coming in at roundabout twice the price of the other 2 amps.
Small room 3.5m square with furnishings, this room is quite direct sonically, the sound is immediate, the sound was quite low too for the tests, I felt it better this way to prevent fatigue setting in. I would say, if anyone knows the Nait 3, it was set to 8 0 clock, the Rotel a tad higher, it's all that is needed in this small space.
One friend switched the cabling while the rest of us waited outside the door, sometimes he did nothing, sometimes he changed it, as basic as this. We had been drinking, maybe this helped us zone out from over concentrating, I don't know.
There was a cloth placed over the stand to hide the amp in play, mainly for the reason of the Naim switch as the test wasn't regarding this.
I have no idea how many times this was carried out, it's been years ago when I had any interest in this area, I now listen to music not cabling.
It was clear when the belden was in place, it really was, as stated earlier, the sound was improved in the areas mentioned, we all heard it, even tough the rest of the gang couldn't give a toss if it did or not.
The Naim sounded best, at twice the price you would expect this I suppose, though my friends didn't enjoy the sound of the Nait, even though they could clearly hear the improved detail & openness of the sound when compared to the Rega & Rotel. They found it a little too real, too warts n' all, which is how I like it.
The cables (which now includes a 5m extension lead since added) have been sitting in any system since, gathering dust, I have a couple of Russ Andrews Yello cables I purchased from Russ for £7.50 a piece many years ago in another system. Never tested these in this manner, I also have a 5m extension of this cable to my system in my other room.
It wasn't a scientific test, it started out as a bit of fun, something I suggested I wanted to try for myself, mainly to see if it was working or not.
Rotel RA-04
Rega Brio3 initially
It proved way too easy with the Rega so we reverted to the Rotel from there on in.
All budget stuff with the Nait 3 coming in at roundabout twice the price of the other 2 amps.
Small room 3.5m square with furnishings, this room is quite direct sonically, the sound is immediate, the sound was quite low too for the tests, I felt it better this way to prevent fatigue setting in. I would say, if anyone knows the Nait 3, it was set to 8 0 clock, the Rotel a tad higher, it's all that is needed in this small space.
One friend switched the cabling while the rest of us waited outside the door, sometimes he did nothing, sometimes he changed it, as basic as this. We had been drinking, maybe this helped us zone out from over concentrating, I don't know.
There was a cloth placed over the stand to hide the amp in play, mainly for the reason of the Naim switch as the test wasn't regarding this.
I have no idea how many times this was carried out, it's been years ago when I had any interest in this area, I now listen to music not cabling.
It was clear when the belden was in place, it really was, as stated earlier, the sound was improved in the areas mentioned, we all heard it, even tough the rest of the gang couldn't give a toss if it did or not.
The Naim sounded best, at twice the price you would expect this I suppose, though my friends didn't enjoy the sound of the Nait, even though they could clearly hear the improved detail & openness of the sound when compared to the Rega & Rotel. They found it a little too real, too warts n' all, which is how I like it.
The cables (which now includes a 5m extension lead since added) have been sitting in any system since, gathering dust, I have a couple of Russ Andrews Yello cables I purchased from Russ for £7.50 a piece many years ago in another system. Never tested these in this manner, I also have a 5m extension of this cable to my system in my other room.
It wasn't a scientific test, it started out as a bit of fun, something I suggested I wanted to try for myself, mainly to see if it was working or not.
adamdea
You are not a sound quality evaluation device
Homeopathic remedies certainly, many dietary supplements including many vitamin tablets, copper bracelets, indulgences.
Links to data easily available I'm sure, except possibly for indulgences.
Homeothapy.
No not idiots, not idiots at all, just not technically informed. Hence why all the psuedo and partial science where real and valid technical information is extrapolated inappropriately to market these products works. Joe ordinary doesnt know better and the marketing can make it all sound quite plausible.
Not just extrapolated by the marketers. The individuals themselves also invent technical stories extrapolated from real technical information to explain what they think they hear.
However it is apparant that the audiophile community does seem to be particularly susceptible to this type of marketing. That is very interesting. Maybe obsessive personalities looking for the magic bullet.
Which makes it utterly pointless because the earth from the mains plug onwards is not shielded.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
BE718 said:
Interesting claim. Do you have any stats to back it up? You know, numbers of aftermarket mains leads sold vs number of amps & sources sold, that sort of thing. Plus, ideally, a comparison with a market which is not susceptible (in your view) so we have sone sort of baseline.
otherwise, it is just a subjective impression, and we know how susceptible to bias and reinforcement they can be.
Most hifi forums (in fact there is only one I know that doesn't) demonstrate the point loud and clear. Perhaps I should re-phrase to "a section of the audiophile community seem particularly susceptible"
Perhaps you would like to offer a comparison to another hobby where tweaks of such dubious merit are sold in such quantity to such a willing audience?
Lee T
pfm Member
Which forum would this be,
you also state "in such quantity", what numbers are these & where is your information coming from for this.
As I have stated before, I only read derision of any type of cable for hifi when reading forums, in the real world I never hear this, never have in 30 years of talking to hundreds of people interested in this hobby.
Here, it seems there very few who feel the way you do, it just seems like there are many as the same people are posting these views, if you look back & do a little homework on the cable thread phenomenon, you will find very few numbers are agreeing with your views, the numbers are misleading.
Give over, you don't think the market for hifi cables and tweaks is (relative) of a decent size given the quantity of companies and products on said market? The marketing in the magazines, the forum discussions etc etc
Trying to distract from the point by asking for specific numbers misses it completely, but no I don't have a graph to present to you. Nice try
Where in the "real World" discusses anything like cables. Most people I know think that audiophiles are a strange obsessive breed and that's my point.
Of course there are few offering the opposing opinion here, like duh, its an audiophile hang out! If you have some credible opposing technical view to those offered by myself, Jim, Adamea or Julf, then lets hear it. Otherwise all you have to say is "I hear it therefore it is" which I am sorry is not a compelling argument in any way.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
Erm, car modifiers.
Just off the top of my head.
Expensive, too.
No doubt the modding fora are full of people arguing that this mod and that doesn't actually improve performance, or actually makes other things worse, or whatever.
Fact is, people like to meddle. It's mostly harmless and, unlike gambling or alcohol, usually done out of discretionary spending.
Clearly you, Julf, Jim et al are free to argue the technical case as you see it, just as I'll argue the subjective one as I see that, and that technical contribution is very worthwhile, but what mars threads like this is when people won't let it drop. That crusading nature, often allied to a degree of condescension, is tiresome and spoils the generally collegiate atmosphere in these parts.
I prefer to make my point, then STFU about it. Which is what I'll do right now.
Just off the top of my head.
Expensive, too.
No doubt the modding fora are full of people arguing that this mod and that doesn't actually improve performance, or actually makes other things worse, or whatever.
Fact is, people like to meddle. It's mostly harmless and, unlike gambling or alcohol, usually done out of discretionary spending.
Clearly you, Julf, Jim et al are free to argue the technical case as you see it, just as I'll argue the subjective one as I see that, and that technical contribution is very worthwhile, but what mars threads like this is when people won't let it drop. That crusading nature, often allied to a degree of condescension, is tiresome and spoils the generally collegiate atmosphere in these parts.
I prefer to make my point, then STFU about it. Which is what I'll do right now.
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