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PMC Fact 8 vs. Fact 8 Signature

So bumping this old thread, as now after 3+ years of waiting/asking/suggesting PMC have woken up to the upgrade world !!!!
With the release of the Signature spec crossovers.

Anyone compared an original FACT to a Signature version?

That said the 2.3K and 4K costs seem a bit steep..... Though looking at the new prices FACT8 are now 10K !!!!!..... I bought new not long after launch and I think I paid 3.8K. So even spending on the upgrade I'm perhaps not doing to bad compared to someone buying new.
 
PMC pricing seems astronomical these days, another supplier that has priced itself out of reach for many. I remember getting FB1s for about 1k. I did the I upgrade on them and didn’t notice any major improvement and sold them for Proacs which were much better all round.
As for these new crossovers they are in cloud cuckoo land with that pricing. I would be surprised if they make enough of an improvement to justify the price. Obviously I haven’t heard them but I would look elsewhere for any major changes.
 
PMC's prices for their higher-range options are hilarious!

Although, the reviews for their entry-level Prodigy range have been great...
 
I've just come across this 2020 thread; PMC didn't mean much to me then, but does now having bought used Twenty.26 end of last year as a stop gap whilst I work out what to do with one buggered Quad 2905 ESL. Yup, the PMCs were sth of a culture shock but now I'm used to their voicing I'm bowled over. Quad still not repaired and do I really want to revert to ESLs? I've been reading up on the Fact 12 (and Sig.) recently as about the only upgrade to what I have.

Too many people have mentioned that the (original) Fact 8 was more of a subjective thing over the .26 than a real upgrade; slightly hard-edged comparatively, I understand. However, the frequency spec's of the Fact 12 really aren't that much better than what I've got, and although the width of my .26s are very narrow (brilliant imaging), the Fact 12 is even slimmer with smaller woofers, albeit 2 of them.

The retail price of my .26s (but in Twenty5i form) when I got them was just shy of 7 grand (I think)and I thought the price high, but was very impressed by the build/mag grilles etc., and I've had ProAc Response 3s, 3.5s and the gigantic 4s over the years.

For info., my .26s are powered by EAR 100 watt mono's which seem to provide scintillating performance without edge, and these EAR valve amps are the closest you can get to solid state presentation. I use the .26s in free space, way back from listening position and I can't imagine them performing as well near boundaries; I've tried.
 
I had the Twenty.26 and now have the Fact 12 Signature. Very similar house sound, but the Facts produce a physics defying wall of sound that dwarfs the 26, and the mid driver in particular is in a different league.

They are about 30% more expensive than when I bought mine, however. There's a lot of competition in that price bracket, and they certainly don't look like 17 grands worth of loudspeaker either!
 
The recommended retail price of PMCs is quite expensive here in Australia, but I noticed there often seems to be discounts and specials, like for instance right now:

It makes me think that the real price of PMC is a fair bit less than the normal retail, and you shouldn't accept it. Wait for a good deal, if you want to buy new, or get second hand. I've noticed second PMC speakers in Australia come up fairly regularly, at a good discount.
 
Warszawa said:
I had the Twenty.26 and now have the Fact 12 Signature. Very similar house sound, but the Facts produce a physics defying wall of sound that dwarfs the 26,
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Well well, nice to know. May I ask about your amplification and room positioning? I'm new to PMC and can't see me returning to big ESLs for various reasons. The thought of my .26s with bells on does attract. I can understand why the imaging (and therefore soundstage) would be better because of spkr dim's and I guess the extra 2 notches on the bass would be heard but coming from a lifetime (55 years) of big speakers I'm a bit dubious about the diminutive, albeit domestically friendly size, both of mine and the Fact 12 Sig's as one element which is missing to a certain extent is scale, which is not quite the same as imaging and soundstage.

The wall of sound enjoyed by my Briks decades ago and big ProAcs and Quad 2905 since are not replicated by the smaller PMCs, whatever their other positive characteristics. I mention this as you referred to 'wall of sound' but with ref. to the .26s.

I could push the boat out and there are discounts available, but the ordinary Fact 12s' current used value is only around the 5 to 6 K mark; way below the rrp for the Sig's. Makes one think, even if they're overpriced comparatively.
 
Mike Reed said:
I'm a bit dubious about the diminutive, albeit domestically friendly size, both of mine and the Fact 12 Sig's as one element which is missing to a certain extent is scale, which is not quite the same as imaging and soundstage.

The wall of sound enjoyed by my Briks decades ago and big ProAcs and Quad 2905 since are not replicated by the smaller PMCs, whatever their other positive characteristics. I mention this as you referred to 'wall of sound' but with ref. to the .26s.
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Having heard both Fact 8 and 12 I think you would find both lacking in scale and weight, I certainly did. Unfortunately to get those needs a larger more expensive speaker. Obviously it depends what importance you place on these aspects but I had to get PMC MB2se to satisfy my requirements.
 
I remember that my first impression upon hearing the Fact 12 in a home demo was that they sounded like speakers twice their size. They do however still have that "fast and lean" character of PMC's other domestic offerings. They don't have the meatiest or weightiest of sounds, but they are bolstered by a bit of room enforcement here as I don't have them that far into the room. It's a blessing and a curse as the bass excites the modes more than the 26 did.

I'm powering them with a 150W Luxman L-509X, but they performed well with the 90W L-590 AXII. Sensitivity is a low 84db, but the impedance curve is fairly benign. The EAR will work, just perhaps not at concert volume.

There's not a big difference between the regular and signature models, and the Fact 12 are in a way ".26s with bells on", but as you're so happy with what you've got, I still wouldn't advise buying without trying.
 
Folkman said:
PMC MB2se to satisfy my requirements.
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Whereas the Fact etc. series is pretty understandable, Googling the MB series is not. I had a look at a pair for sale awhile ago but couldn't believe a stand-mount (in effect) spkr could outdo the floor-stander. I know that sounds a bit simplistic and naive, but maybe the various editions and price standpoints is confusing me.

You obv. liked what your Fact 12s could do and there would be a similarity between my .26s and Facts but not at all sure where the MBs come in, their history or why (if?) they're all stand-mounts. Used MBs seem to come up at around the 13K mark but these are not the top ones, I gather.

Any clarity on this/these would be appreciated.
 
The MB2se are basically a domesticated version of the professional monitors MB2 and 3. The BB5 is above the MB2 but is a lot bigger and a lot more expensive and I don't recall ever seeing any s/h for sale. Also the MB2 are 8 ohm whereas the BB5 are 4 ohm. I demd the Fact12 and really liked them but found they lacked the ultimate weight, scale and reality I was looking for, which is why I demd and purchased the MB2se. Without hearing them it is difficult to explain the differences but I found the step up from the Facts to be in another league.
 
@Mike Reed - Bit of a diversion here, but today I went to a HiFi show in Melbourne. I heard a speaker called the Duke, made by an Australian company called Hulgich Audio. Here is a link to info on this: https://hulgichaudio.com.au/duke.html

It's basically a very small company, you would have no hope of listening to it nor buying it in the UK. Given my speakers are 25.26, and I know in detail the sound they produce, I was very impressed with the Dukes. Whereas I'd call the 25.26 "precise", I would call the Dukes "coherent". This is not a transmission line design, but it has a relatively large woofer which is front ported. Given it's a HiFi show, it's hard to evaluate every aspect of the speaker, so I couldn't really get a feel of the full ability of the bass, but think it might be more full bodied than the PMC, perhaps getting more like the MB series.

I think you might like this speaker, so sorry if I'm teasing you with something that's unobtainable. The other thing too is that because the distribution is so small and limited, there would be hardly any selling second hand, so if anybody wanted one, realistically, they would have to buy it new.
 
Purité Audio said:
HiFi Critic reviewed/measured the Fact 12,
https://pmc-speakers.com/sites/default/files/attachments/HiFi Critic fact.12 Review_0.pdf

Keith
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Mike Reed said:
....However, the frequency spec's of the Fact 12 really aren't that much better than what I've got, .....
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Don't want to be rude to anybody, but if the lab measurements of the original Fact.12 are anything to go by they're objectively bettered or equalled (frequency response flatness, waterfall response) by Monitor Audios Silver 500 7g speakers. Of course if people are wedded to the transmission lines way of producing bass or you assess speakers purely subjectively (nothing wrong with that obviously), then that'll be irrelevant to you.

This is the waterfall plot for example:

122monitoraudio.MS500fig8.jpg


This is the fact.12 one in comparison (note the level goes quite a bit lower than the overall -30db of the MA plot), but to the same levels the MA is just as clean which would indicate a very transparent sound):

https://imgur.com/a/D6aoNMO
 
Thanks folks; unfortunately not in a position to upgrade currently from my .26s. Nothing to do with finance; more that there's a limit to space in housing sick 2905 ESLs plus .26s AND yet more main system speakers. I'll bide my time but the above posts and reviews (thanks) do point the way.
 
I would dearly love some MB2 SE but aside from the cost, they're far too big for my room and the Fact 12 in white are very inconspicuous speakers. One upside of the lacklustre finish is that they don't scream "look I bought speakers that cost more than a car!"
 
Warszawa said:
the Fact 12 are in a way ".26s with bells on", but as you're so happy with what you've got, I still wouldn't advise buying without trying.
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All different drivers, twice as many bass drivers, a much larger cabinet and higher component quality in the crossover makes them a bit more than 26s will bells on.
 
I might've been the test case for the FACT.12 Signature crossover upgrade kit. I didn't pay anything like the advertised price, but then I did without the new rear panel and fitted them myself. They do make for much better integration of the drivers, its one of those things not really noticed until its sorted out. Its a clear improvement, but the VFM, of course, is an individual thing.
I now run them with Linn Exakt crossovers designed to emulate the Signature crossovers but with all the phase and timing issues sorted :)
 
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