placebo and its relation to 'hearing better'

[mattgbell]

[...]
It would be nice if there was a way of separating all of this out so that no one feels got at, judged or mocked. Unfortunately I just don't think it's ever going to work though. This hobby is IMHO riven through like a stick of rock with a sort of science cosplay. Most people seem to sell and buy fancy cables because on the basis that the cables are somehow allowing a purer more unadulterated signal through. If we could all agree that it's just a laugh there would be no need for arguments.
[...]

I would add that in hi-fi (but not hi-fi alone) a genuine interest in acquiring knowledge has been replaced by a spurious notion of connoisseurship. I think this first emerged in the magazines. But with the democratization that the internet has brought, now everyone can be a spurious connoisseur.

In calling it "spurious", I'm thinking about the genuine connoisseurship that exists in some other fields. The one I know about is wine. Genuine wine connoisseurship is marked by (i) deep knowledge of the subject and (ii) a verifiable ability to distinguish/identify wines in blind tastings. I know a fair few people who tick both boxes. Seeing them taste blind and hearing them talk about it is genuinely illuminating.

Of course, there is room in wine for genuine connoisseurship because (a) there are significant chemical and taste differences between wines (unlike ethernet cables), (b) blind tasting of wine is ridiculously easy to arrange, (c) there's enough money the the fine wine business to support academically rigorous education and training (see e.g. the Master of Wine qualification, which inter alia includes a rigorous blind tasting exam.)

 

[pjdowns]

As far as I know, this is an audio forum. Audio is about the technology (applied science) of reproducing recorded sound.

If someone claimed in a car forum that furry dice hanging from the rear view mirror makes cars go 20 mph faster, would you expect everyone to just accept that as a fact?

FFS why use such ridiculous analogies, they are not exactly on a par are they! I might not take something as fact, but I wouldn't write it off as nonsense or idiotic until I had tried it unlike a lot of folk do here!

 

[pjdowns]

You may joke, but someone on a car forum actually stated once that putting the rear seat-backs down made a car handle better!

I could see why that might make a difference.

 

[chartz]

You may think they are being ripped off, but in reality, nobody really gets ripped off. They chose to spend the money on whatever it is. Yes companies take the mick with the prices they pay, but whilst ever people are willing to pay the money, why on earth would they reduce the price?

They wouldn’t, would they?
But then how can they look at their reflection in a mirror?
They are crooks, like homeopathy labs. They should be sued, period. Oh but I’ve already said that.

 

[pjdowns]

They wouldn’t, would they?
But then how can they look at their reflection in a mirror?
They are crooks, like homeopathy labs. They should be sued, period. Oh but I’ve already said that.

Have you tried homeopathy and found that it didn't work?? have you?

I have and it helped me immensely.

Doctors don't believe in it, but that's because they are afraid of it pure and simple.

 

[Joe P]

I tried homeopathy once. I ended up dancing nekid on a table then passed out in a ditch from a mere sip of a light American beer I had cut with some water.

Actually, I made that up. I was clothed.

Joe

 

[Julf]

Have you tried homeopathy and found that it didn't work?? have you?

Yes.

Sorry... "Yes!! FFS!"

Doctors don't believe in it, but that's because they are afraid of it pure and simple.

Right. Indeed. What do doctors know about health?

If I come across a bit aggressive, it is just because somebody I was pretty close to died because she believed in that woo instead of relying on proper science.

 

[Funk]

I could see why that might make a difference.

It would be akin to chucking deckchairs off the Titanic though. Much of the hi-fi flim-flam on here is the same as saying putting the seats down makes the car feel faster even though it measurably is identical. The human brain is is excellent at fooling itself with stuff it wants to believe or assume.

Have you tried homeopathy and found that it didn't work?? have you?

I have and it helped me immensely.

Doctors don't believe in it, but that's because they are afraid of it pure and simple.

Do you know what they call alternative medicine that works? Medicine.

Just out of curiosity....what's your view on vaccinations?

 

[pjdowns]

Yes.

Sorry... "Yes!! FFS!"



Right. Indeed. What do doctors know about health?

If I come across a bit aggressive, it is just because somebody I was pretty close to died because she believed in that woo instead of relying on proper science.

I didn't think you were being aggressive, Julf.

I don't for one second think that modern medicine should be replaced or ignored and Homeopathy used instead. But I do think there is a place for it where it makes a difference to someone.

Something I don't usually share, is that I have a very serious form of heart failure. I was diagnosed at 36 with that condition if you were to read the British Heart foundation's website says you have a life expectancy of 5 years, well I am 41 years old, so you fathom that one out.

I had a lot of side effects from the medication that I was given for my heart condition, and when I asked for help from the Cardiologists they basically said I had no choice, it was either death or take the pills.

I sort out alternatives, and found Homeopathy seriously helped me with a series of the side effects, as did taking regular vitamin supplements. Whether or not that all actually helped or it was in my head, I honestly couldn't give a f**k, all I care about is that it helped!

 

[pjdowns]

It would be akin to chucking deckchairs off the Titanic though. Much of the hi-fi flim-flam on here is the same as saying putting the seats down makes the car feel faster even though it measurably is identical. The human brain is is excellent at fooling itself with stuff it wants to believe or assume.

No problem with your point here.

IDo you know what they call alternative medicine that works? Medicine.

Of course it is medicine, not sure I see what you are trying to get at?

Just out of curiosity....what's your view on vaccinations?

Why? I think you should have them.

 

[gints]

With homeopathy you can easy rule out head, as there are bunch of plants which grows on window sill at homes or in fields or trees and are first thing to use to heal small wounds or helped with cold. At least when I was child, I do not know, maybe this generation is so brainwashed that for them help comes only in pills.

 

[Julf]

With homeopathy you can easy rule out head, as there are bunch of plants which grows on window sill at homes or in fields or trees and are first thing to use to heal small wounds or helped with cold.

Isn't that like saying "you can easy rule out head, as I believe the stuff works"?

 

[Julf]

Something I don't usually share, is that I have a very serious form of heart failure. I was diagnosed at 36 with that condition if you were to read the British Heart foundation's website says you have a life expectancy of 5 years, well I am 41 years old, so you fathom that one out.

I had a lot of side effects from the medication that I was given for my heart condition, and when I asked for help from the Cardiologists they basically said I had no choice, it was either death or take the pills.

I sort out alternatives, and found Homeopathy seriously helped me with a series of the side effects, as did taking regular vitamin supplements. Whether or not that all actually helped or it was in my head, I honestly couldn't give a f**k, all I care about is that it helped!

Thanks for sharing - and great that the stuff has worked for you. As we have a bunch of cancer survivors in the family, I am happy to say "whatever works for you - as long as it doesn't make you ignore scientific medicine".

 

[gints]

Isn't that like saying "you can easy rule out head, as I believe the stuff works"?

No, I do not need to believe, I can see it working, I can feel it working. And others (like mum) also can see it working on me.

 

[Julf]

No, I do not need to believe, I can see it working, I can feel it working. And others (like mum) also can see it working on me.

 

[onlyconnect]

With homeopathy you can easy rule out head, as there are bunch of plants which grows on window sill at homes or in fields or trees and are first thing to use to heal small wounds or helped with cold. At least when I was child, I do not know, maybe this generation is so brainwashed that for them help comes only in pills.

I think you are confusing homeopathy with herbal medicine or natural remedies, they are not remotely alike.

Tim

 

[Julf]

No, I do not need to believe, I can see it working, I can feel it working. And others (like mum) also can see it working on me.

Have a look at this picture. Are the two cubes the same or different colour?

 

[pjdowns]

Thanks for sharing - and great that the stuff has worked for you. As we have a bunch of cancer survivors in the family, I am happy to say "whatever works for you - as long as it doesn't make you ignore scientific medicine".

Don't worry I would never stop taking my medication, although it can be a ball ache at times!

 

[pjdowns]

Have a look at this picture. Are the two cubes the same or different colour?

That's a clever picture. Surely it depends on the angle it was taken as to whether one has a shadow on it making it look like it is a darker colour?

 

[Julf]

That's a clever picture. Surely it depends on the angle it was taken as to whether one has a shadow on it making it look like it is a darker colour?

It is of course totally artificially generated, but it illustrates the dangers of blindly (sorry!) trusting your senses.