Pink Fish Bowl 2023

[matthewr]

The new league year has started, free agency is on and the draft is coming up fast. So it's time for a new NFL thread! At least for the handful of people here who will admit to a fondness for the year round spectacle that is the modern game fondly known on these shores as American Egg Chasing.

Lots to talk about:

-- The Draft. Outside of opening weekend, my favourite part of the league year.

-- Panthers trading up for the #1 pick and giving up enough so much the Bears can't possibly screw this up (they can't right?).

-- Lamargate!

-- Will Bezos buy the Commanders for $7bn and rename them the Washington Primes?

-- Is Rodgers to the Jets set to be a re-run of the Brett Favre debacle?

Will this thread manage more than a handful of posts a month from three people? Will it be as bad tempered as the F1 thread? Will Dallas fans come and discuss their shameful habit and join in when their season ends in hilarious defeat again?

 

[Spraggons Den]

Great intro MathewR.

I hope it attracts lots of interest and I shall try to contribute although I don't usually take much interest during the off season myself as I take the time to recover from the intensity of the last campaign and I quite like to be surprised at the start of the new season.

 

[gavreid]

I'm more of a baseball fan. It would be good to have a general thread for US sports

 

[matthewr]

I think that' pretty much the view of most Fishies, Spraggers and year round obsessives like me are rare in these parts. Also NFL podcasts are my get to sleep method of choice so I wake up with a burning desire to talk about DL depth on my favourite team.

By all means, talk baseball Gav. I went through a phase of watching a lot when it was on Channel 5 and I had chronic insomnia. My period of keen interest went from the glorious Diamondbacks 2001 season to about the blood sock year.

 

[gordon]

I'm more focused on basketball this time of year, especially with the NCAA tournament starting today, but I do keep one eye on the goings on in the NFL, mainly regarding the Eagles. Due to their success, both the coaching staff and players have taken a big hit. Four starters (Edwards, Hargrave, Epps, and Dillard) had signed elsewhere. Both the offensive and defensive coordinators have left for head coaching positions. These changes don't bode well for next year.

The Raiders seem clueless as ever, ousting Carr, and signing Garoppolo. A definite step backwards. Aaron Rogers is definitely the next Farve, Wilson, etc.

I was glad to Kellen Moore get signed as the LA Chargers offensive coordinator so quickly after getting dumped by the Cowboys. I loved watching him when he was quarterback at Boise State.

 

[matthewr]

These changes don't bode well for next year.

I dunno. Kind of the point of the Eagles after they changed their fortunes around (by throwing a game against the Commanders!) is that they have the front office, the coaching and the QB for sustained success. They might have a drop off and the NFC East famously never has repeat winners, but they will still be good and still have a very good roster, a well run cap and lots of draft capital.

I'd be much more worried if I was a Giants fan after they paid below average QB Daniel Jones on the basis of winning that game in Minnesota. They looked like the fraud team in the East.

 

[gordon]

I...is that they have the front office, the coaching and the QB for sustained success.

I'd be much more worried if I was a Giants fan after they paid below average QB Daniel Jones on the basis of winning that game in Minnesota. They looked like the fraud team in the East.

I hope you're right. I'm a bit unsure about the front office. Good moves in recent years, but a history of bad moves.

Some of Howie Roseman's bad choices. Jalen Reagor over Justin Jefferson, well Reagor over anyone. Andre Dillard, Derek Barnett, Eric Rowe, Nelson Agholor, Danny Watkins, Marcus Smith, Jaiquawn Jarrett, JJ Arcega-Whiteside, Sidney Jones, Mychal Kendircks, etc.

I could throw in Carson Wentz, but at least they were able to get some decent draft picks for him in the end.

Daniel Jones is Carson Wentz, except Wentz had one very good season prior to getting injured.

 

[boneman]

Sad to see that the great Bud Grant passed a few days back. He had some great teams back in the day. Shame he didn't win one of those SBs as he certainly fielded some quality.

As for current I'm quite intrigued by LJ being hung out there and nobody snapping him up. I wish the Vikes would take him. Guy is a great talent.

As for Rogers, after the Favre debacle I just roll my eyes. If GB's new QB ends up as good as them both though I will, as a Vikes fan, finally resign myself to us being cursed!

Agree with matthewr above on the 'G' men. Giving Jones that contract reminds me of our giving Cousins that big contract a few years back and Cousins is probably a step up from him but still not good enough for the money.

 

[Hook]

What do you say about a team that’s struggling with salary cap? They’re in salary captivity.

The Vikes have started to let several expensive veterans go, but the plan to replace them is vague. They are trying for a “competitive rebuild”, but it could all go easily south from here.

Not expecting much from the team next year. Looks more like the Lions and Bears are moving up. Guess we’ll see.

 

[matthewr]

I hope you're right. I'm a bit unsure about the front office. Good moves in recent years, but a history of bad moves.

Some of Howie Roseman's bad choices. Jalen Reagor over Justin Jefferson, well Reagor over anyone. Andre Dillard, Derek Barnett, Eric Rowe, Nelson Agholor, Danny Watkins, Marcus Smith, Jaiquawn Jarrett, JJ Arcega-Whiteside, Sidney Jones, Mychal Kendircks, etc.

I could throw in Carson Wentz, but at least they were able to get some decent draft picks for him in the end.

Daniel Jones is Carson Wentz, except Wentz had one very good season prior to getting injured.

The key thing to the draft is not to get hung up on individual picks -- all NFL teams hit on about 50% of picks over time and it's more important to have a good process than to worry about how individual picks worked out. Roseman the last few years seems to have learnt all the important lessons -- draft capital matters, positional value matters, don't trade up unless it's a QB, amass picks, etc. etc -- and if you do this then stuff works out over time.

There is a definite change in how he ran the team and it pretty much pivots on that infamous play when they basically through the game by pulling their starters against Washington. That plus having your QB and top tier modern coaching and you will be a regular contender. Fans of course never learn these lessons and either see the draft as a way to fix the roster pick by pick or as a "total crap shoot" both of which are wrong.

Wentz for me didn't come back from his injury the same player. I think the Eagles knew this and sold the Colts a ringer. The Commanders had no excuse and made a terrible trade because everyone else (Watson, Wilson, etc) was gone and they got desperate.

Jones I think is a big mistake. For it to work the Minnesota game has to be a turning point and not a one off. That might happen and he might go from below average starter to top 8 elite QB but that very rarely happens. In fact it has basically happened only once (Josh Allen). They should have franchised him and let Saquon walk.

 

[matthewr]

As for current I'm quite intrigued by LJ being hung out there and nobody snapping him up. I wish the Vikes would take him. Guy is a great talent.

Seems to me he thinks he can get five years, fully guaranteed based on Watson's deal and because he doesn't have an agent to tell him that is impossible he has basically screwed himself. Hard or see anyone giving him the contract he wants plus 2 firsts given he has declined every years since his MVP year and keeps getting injured.

As for Rogers, after the Favre debacle I just roll my eyes. If GB's new QB ends up as good as them both though I will, as a Vikes fan, finally resign myself to us being cursed!

reminds me of our giving Cousins that big contract a few years back and Cousins is probably a step up from him but still not good enough for the money.

Cousins was always not quite good enough and not worth a big contract. But he's actually played his best football in the last 2 years. But still cannot win the big games, especially not in prime time. Peak Lamar was at least an elite QB though a tier above Cousins at his best.

 

[matthewr]

For the draft I am warming to the idea that we might see QBs go in the first 4 picks. Which would be bonkers, but...

-- Panthers are taking a QB #1. Betting markets say it's Stroud not Young. Stroud is worth this if you only look at the Georgia game, otherwise I would take Young.
-- Texans are taking Young at #2 (or Stroud if the Panthers take Young).
-- Falcons might take Will Anderson at #3. But they will also get offers to get ahead of the Colts at #4 so someone could trade here to take one of Levis or Richardson.
-- Colts take whoever is left.
-- Don't count out Richardson at #1. It would be insane but someone will fall in love with the unlimited upside.
-- Richardson somehow ending up in Baltimore to completely screw Lamar is also not out of the question.

Richardson is a massive punt of course and to a certain extent so is Levis. Being risk averse type I would run a mile from either. Best strategy is having two 1sts next year as there are 2 or 3 likely better than anyone this year and Caleb Williams is probably actually worth the massive pile of picks the Panthers gave up this year. It's why I love what Ryan Poles has done -- if Fields sucks Chicago likely finishes with a high-ish pick again and has extra picks from the trade for a shot at Williams or one of the other 2 with a fresh 5 years on the rookie contract clock.