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Phono stages

C

Crash!

pfm Member
Before you ask, the rest of the system is PC to MDAC (just so's you know what my ears are used to), 152XS, 200, FlatCap and PMC GB1i speakers.

I recently decided to upgrade my TT to one that works - a Pro-Ject 6 Perspex with an ATF3 MC cartridge demo'd on much cheaper amplification and similarish speakers. It was awesome. At home though, it's still good, but something is wrong. It sounds a million miles away (if not more) and the bass (a thing I treasure and spent ages trying to get right for the digital stuff) has gone.

Now I do know that there's one or two aspects to listening to vinyl which are subtly different from WAV files. There might even be more :))), but the differences between shop/home/digital/vinyl suggest that there's something in the different chain that really isn't up to the job.

I think I may already know the answer to this question already, but would welcome thoughts/shared experiences/suggestions.

Is the culprit my Cambridge Audio 640 phono stage?
 
The 640p is flat to 20hz so it's not that at fault. It may be a mismatch between cartridge loading and cartridge, and the loading on the 640p is fixed.

Maybe ask Jez Arkless, he's doing soem rather well received mods for the 640p currently and I believe variable cartridge loading is one part of the mods. Have a chat, he's a very straight forward guy to deal and I've used him for a couple of repairs and mods to gear this past year. Always a 1st class service.
 
Maybe it is where your deck it sited? Don't know the deck in question but wall shelves out of the firing line are usually a good thing to help isolate the deck from sound and mechanical vibrations
 
I used an audio technica oc9 for a brief spell some years ago; it was very sensitive to phono stage loading options and sounded very thin and lightweight through a Linn Linto that I was using at the time. Through a trichord Dino with different loading options it was a entirely different beast, and quite impressive.

Out of interest, what phono stage was being used when you heard it in the shop?
 
It was a tiny Pro-Ject phono-box.

The cartridge loading is an interesting one. Thanks to afewbeers (I've said that before, but not in this context) for the info.

As someone with Naim on the brain, I was thinking of plumping for a Stageline, but this might be the first time in my experience that more money does not equal more music.

Am I therefore looking for something suited to the loading of an ATF3? And if so, which numbers am I looking to match? (Sorry for the ignorance).
 
Oh, and a PS, thank you to Robn for the mounting suggestion. I shall investigate, however I'm pretty sure that's not the whole story.
 
Hi Crash,
I don't know what your budget is, but I have found the battery powered Albarry MCA11 incredible value for money at £500, it has switchable loading, 25, 50 and 100 Ohms.
It brought so much openness to my system.

regards Al
 
I really wouldn't bother with a Stageline. A Dynavector P75 Mk II's pretty damn good.
 
I really wouldn't bother with a Dynavector P75. £140 will get your 640 at about the same level with the Arkless mod and Jez will match it to your cartridge. Check out the thread below.
 
I had a budget until the turntable arrived!

I'm trying to find a solution firstly. The sensible thing to do would be to borrow the Pro-Ject box that worked.

The trouble is, I'm not always sensible. And then you have the issue that you've just spent £100 on something that can be easily trashed by something costing double that. And then there's something almost affordable that easily betters that.

If the 640 isn't fit, I suppose I'd like to spend an amount of money (some hundreds) that would make both myself and my girlfriend wince thus removing the likelihood of being persuaded to throw more money at it in the near future and I can rid myself of the nagging doubt in the back of my mind that says "What if you had just spend another £xxx?"

This looks to have some flexibility? http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/Pro-Ject-Phono-Box-RS/product_6838?ref=gmc Has anyone heard it?

Ultimately though, and this is almost the point of the thread, I find music sounds better when you know you simply can't justify the required expense of an upgrade!
 
MVV said:
I really wouldn't bother with a Dynavector P75. £140 will get your 640 at about the same level with the Arkless mod and Jez will match it to your cartridge. Check out the thread below.
Click to expand...

Buy unheard? Custom hacked? Hand soldered? There could be something in that.

The only issue I see is that now that I've looked at numbers, the ATF3 output is 0.35mv and the 640 expects 0.5 - 1mv - which could be part of the issue. It's always in pianissimo mode and requires a lot of volume on the pre-amp. I'm both guessing and showing my ignorance (for those that hadn't realised).
 
Crash! said:
]Buy unheard? Custom hacked? Hand soldered?[/B] There could be something in that.

The only issue I see is that now that I've looked at numbers, the ATF3 output is 0.35mv and the 640 expects 0.5 - 1mv - which could be part of the issue. It's always in pianissimo mode and requires a lot of volume on the pre-amp. I'm both guessing and showing my ignorance (for those that hadn't realised).
Click to expand...

First of all thanks for the thumbs up SQ! Hope all the gear is still working fine.

As to the bit I've highlighted in the quote.... well I guess this is what one is up against with a new product. Crash, for your information I have a life time of experience, once ran Musical Fidelity service department and was Chief Engineer with Alchemist Products. I'm also a full member of the Institute of Sound and Communication Engineers so kind of "corgi registered" there ;)

you would I'm sure find my modified 640P to be at least on a par with many £500 - £1000 + phono stages.... bargain of the century when it comes to phono stages! There is a demo unit doing the rounds if you really must hear it but there are a few in the queue already.
 
Crash! said:
...something is wrong. It sounds a million miles away (if not more) and the bass (a thing I treasure and spent ages trying to get right for the digital stuff) has gone.
Click to expand...

Is your cartridge wired correctly? If one of the channels has the wires the wrong way round, you will get 'out of phase' sound.

One of the symptoms of out of phase sound is that things can sound distant and out of focus.

Check that your green and blue, red and white leads are connected correctly to the back of the cartridge.
 
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