the caretaker
pfm Member
If your happy..this is what it's all about..
Philosophy Science Electronics and cables
- Thread starter marvan
- Start date
Jim Audiomisc
pfm Member
I'm "interested in cables" because other people report that they "make a difference". As someone who has a wider interest in science and engineering *and* who likes to enjoy music well reproduced that has prompted me to look into the topic and report what I find. Others can make use of that or ignore it as they prefer.
Jim Audiomisc
pfm Member
That's fine. However *if* they then assert a 'reason' for their preference that claim may mislead others *if* they are actually wrong about the cause. It is one thing to prefer one setup to another. It is something else to pronounce what the *cause* is.
Hence if someone says it was the change of cable, when in fact it was, say, that they had a cup of tea and then sat back with their ears in a different place, their claim may cause others to waste time, effort, or cash which they could have spent more advantageously.
Also, for anyone interested in *understanding*, it matters to sort wheat from chaff.
flutteringwow
She called me baby, like an old romantic
I'm "interested in cables" because other people report that they "make a difference". As someone who has a wider interest in science and engineering *and* who likes to enjoy music well reproduced that has prompted me to look into the topic and report what I find. Others can make use of that or ignore it as they prefer.
How many times do you think you need to report your opinion over a lifetime?
John Phillips
pfm Member
Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander?How many times do you think you need to report your opinion over a lifetime?
Jim Audiomisc
pfm Member
How many times do you think you need to report your opinion over a lifetime?
About as often as I find others asserting potentially misleading opinions of their own.
However some facts do come through. e.g. That even a small movement of the listening position often changes the sound you get from a hi-fi system. Also, the physilologists established long ago that hearing sounds causes actual changes in the ears that then affect what is heard subsequently.
Beware of OSAF - which is often based on MOOM.
the caretaker
pfm Member
I think if the reason is they enjoy the sound more..seems good enough for me..
My gripe is more with people set in their ways..all cables sound the same etc...and then jabbing at people who have a different view...any opportunity to improve one's system is a good thing..a simple change of cables can do this.. so why not?
Ps I'm not sure a cup of tea or comfy slippers make much difference for listening..however I'm quite sure cables do...but its up to the individual to decide..
flutteringwow
She called me baby, like an old romantic
About as often as I find others asserting potentially misleading opinions of their own.
Thankfully you used potentially in that sentence..so, like oppression then. Got it.
Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander?
I aim for enjoyment, let people enjoy what they do, hear, etc, not so much arrogant oppression.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
I think people sometimes get hung up on the idea of 'better' sound, when what they really want is better music. Focusing on changes to the way a system sounds may not tell you all that much about how well it communicates and engages with your music. Taking a step back from getting all analytical about the sound can often be very helpful. Asking simple questions like 'am I enjoying this more, or less, than before?' or 'how good do I think these musicians are, and are they better or less good than before?' will help focus on the actual objective in ways that trying to decide if that itty bitty detail was there last time, or the midrange is more transparent, probably won't.
camverton
pfm Member
I largely agree, particularly that we must be careful not to lead others to spend money without good reason. Of course, one man’s subjective preference could be a reason for someone who trusts their judgement. On the internet, however, it is difficult to work out who to trust; An aggressive, I know how it all works their is nothing left to learn engineer versus a subjective enthusiastically espousing the, maybe, tiniest of improvements as night and day difference. Personally, I am very wary of both, but both are valuable, one as a caution, the other as making me aware of what might be worth trying for myself.
As a professional photographer I worked in support of many scientists and engineers and found a tendency for scientists to be interested in what they don’t know whereas engineers, in many but not all cases, had acquired their knowledge and regarded it as an absolute not worthy of further discussion. Within the limit of their knowledge their views are, of course, very useful.
This isn’t a reason to accept every fanciful innovation which claims an improvement in sound so much as to take a balanced approach of considering the way something works with experience of how it sounds. I guess it’s all about being open minded and continuing to learn and trying not to take one side to the automatic exclusion of the other.
Jim Audiomisc
pfm Member
I tended to be some kind of mix of 'scientist' and 'injuneer'. I always liked to understand how things work, and then to see if I could devise a better way or system to do a better job of the task. Continual process of experiment, discovery, and finding better ways when possible. For both nominal 'classes' of your binary divide I encountered both good and bad examples. The best were always looking for new ideas, approaches, etc, and enjoyed/used novel ones.
Somafunk
pfm Member
Here’s some cable science for you all, irrefutable scientific proof that cables do matter
More utter foo from audioquest shilled by Micheal lavorgna , they ”apparently“ contain “zero-tech” technology, I shit you not……they actually described it as zero tech.
Only $3000 to $12000 for a 1m length.
https://twitteringmachines.com/audioquest-unleashes-the-mythical-creatures-interconnects/
ZERO-Tech: Unprecedented RF Noise-Dissipation
Most of the credit for passing so much more information than AudioQuest’s previous generation of state-of-the-art cables — and even more importantly, so much less misinformation (energy on the wrong place and time) — goes to ZERO-Tech (No Characteristic-Impedance) dramatically improving RF Noise-Dissipation. This enables more of the nuance that makes music so engaging, moving, and human: more fully realized tonal expression with more newly un-masked low-level detail revealed than ever before, more relaxing and stimulating at the same time, more palpable and engaging than previously possible.
For decades, I have described the evolution of AudioQuest cables as climbing up a mountain — a mountain whose summit might never be reached. From 1980 onwards, AQ cable evolution has been one continuous climb as our cables became ever more sonically invisible, made possible by an ever-expanding palette or tool kit.
The new Mythical Creature interconnects apply the very best of every ingredient and technique we’ve developed over 42 years. Plus, they employ ZERO-Tech, which reduces dielectric-involvement and improves Noise-Dissipation to unprecedented effect. They feature far superior RF drains, Graphene inside the Carbon Mesh-Network, copper and silver-plated RF-draining plug barrels, and other significant topology refinements.
More utter foo from audioquest shilled by Micheal lavorgna , they ”apparently“ contain “zero-tech” technology, I shit you not……they actually described it as zero tech.
https://twitteringmachines.com/audioquest-unleashes-the-mythical-creatures-interconnects/
ZERO-Tech: Unprecedented RF Noise-Dissipation
Most of the credit for passing so much more information than AudioQuest’s previous generation of state-of-the-art cables — and even more importantly, so much less misinformation (energy on the wrong place and time) — goes to ZERO-Tech (No Characteristic-Impedance) dramatically improving RF Noise-Dissipation. This enables more of the nuance that makes music so engaging, moving, and human: more fully realized tonal expression with more newly un-masked low-level detail revealed than ever before, more relaxing and stimulating at the same time, more palpable and engaging than previously possible.
For decades, I have described the evolution of AudioQuest cables as climbing up a mountain — a mountain whose summit might never be reached. From 1980 onwards, AQ cable evolution has been one continuous climb as our cables became ever more sonically invisible, made possible by an ever-expanding palette or tool kit.
The new Mythical Creature interconnects apply the very best of every ingredient and technique we’ve developed over 42 years. Plus, they employ ZERO-Tech, which reduces dielectric-involvement and improves Noise-Dissipation to unprecedented effect. They feature far superior RF drains, Graphene inside the Carbon Mesh-Network, copper and silver-plated RF-draining plug barrels, and other significant topology refinements.
camverton
pfm Member
Indeed, there is a danger with my post giving the impression of a binary divide, and I suppose my post was more about the outer rather than inner quartile! Nonetheless I still stand by my general observation and fwiw always thought that you were more towards the scientific method than engineer dogma, as in the I’m an electronics engineer therefore I am right and anything you say is stupid (which is not to devalue what they do actually know).
Thankfully, to my music listening delight, some designers carried on refining digital playback technology to the point where I am no longer distracted by thinking something isn’t quite right.
I love my music
Occasionally I enjoy a dabble in something new
When I had enough of the Naim upgraditis I bought a Linn DSM (5 boxes became 1)I sold all my Chord din interconnect cables and bought into the philosophy that all xlr cables are the same. I bought van damme. This was 4 years ago. This year I started reading up on my options
I then Tried Mogami and then a Yannis silver one. Then I wondered about a Linn Silver or Chord Anthem.
I now tend to buy second hand so don’t have the opportunity to test them at the Hifi shop.
This is the reason for the thread.
I was hoping for a bit more understanding of the subject.
I am now on a learning curve thanks to you!
Occasionally I enjoy a dabble in something new
When I had enough of the Naim upgraditis I bought a Linn DSM (5 boxes became 1)I sold all my Chord din interconnect cables and bought into the philosophy that all xlr cables are the same. I bought van damme. This was 4 years ago. This year I started reading up on my options
I then Tried Mogami and then a Yannis silver one. Then I wondered about a Linn Silver or Chord Anthem.
I now tend to buy second hand so don’t have the opportunity to test them at the Hifi shop.
This is the reason for the thread.
I was hoping for a bit more understanding of the subject.
I am now on a learning curve thanks to you!
chiily
PFM Special Builder
That is just pure golden, wonder filled, full of stars nonsense...Here’s some cable science for you all, irrefutable scientific proof that cables do matter
<Snip>
The new Mythical Creature interconnects apply the very best of every ingredient and technique we’ve developed over 42 years. Plus, they employ ZERO-Tech, which reduces dielectric-involvement and improves Noise-Dissipation to unprecedented effect. They feature far superior RF drains, Graphene inside the Carbon Mesh-Network, copper and silver-plated RF-draining plug barrels, and other significant topology refinements.
Hats off to the magician that fashioned that from unicorns.
I would expect it to sound bloody amazing. No, I know it'll sound bloody amazing!
a.palfreyman
pfm Member
Probably a lot less than you appear to.How many times do you think you need to report your opinion over a lifetime?
I respectfully suggest you go and have a read on this site:
http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/
You never know, you might just learn something if you are open-minded enough...