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Permostat-WTF!!

rontoolsie

rontoolsie

pfm Member
Lately I have been delving into my LP collection that dates back to the early 70's. Most of them still sound great and are suprisingly free of surface noise. There are however a few that I have owned from new, which I KNOW used to have silent surfaces and great sound (my cherished Nautilus 1/2 speed mastering of Claptons 'Just One Night' for instance) that now have massive amounts of surface noise and extreme distorsion like the cartridge is shagged, has a massive dust ball on its end or has been ploughed into with a rusty needle tracking at 50 grams- none of which are the case. And the surfaces look immaculate. However, ALL of these LPs so afflicted have that small red 'P' sticker on the label, indicating that at one time-probably in the early 1980s I had treated them with Permostat.

Now, I should note that not ALL of the Permostat treated LPs behave in this fashion, but without doubt ALL of the LPs that have this particular type of noise and breakup were Permostated. I know that if the LPs had been originally shagged, I wouldn't have bothered Permostating them at the time.

I am pretty sure that there must be some nasty interaction involving the Permostat, the long duration of its contact with the vinyl surface (30 years) and whatever formulation of vinyl has been used for the LPs so affected. I estimate that about 1/3 of LPs I have Permostated have this problem, and not a single one of the dozens I have played that have not been treated are suffering.

Anybody else have had this experience?
 
Yup, Permostat is well known for this - over time it dries out and becomes separated from the groove and clogs everything up :).

I think they can be cleaned to get rid of it - never had to do it myself though. I'm sure Tony Will have come across this issue.
 
I had a feeling that my stylus was attempting to 'play through something' before it hit the groove. There goes my 'Just One Night', 'Moontan' and probably two dozen other LPs that are simply not replaceable. Thing is for years, the Permostated LPs were just great. Even to this day, they don't attract a single hair or carpet fibre. They are just unplayable :-( I see to this day Permostat is still marketed. Surely it should have been withdrawn if it potentially caused damage to or destroyed the only thing it was supposed to protect.

I wonder if a RCM can resurrect any of these?
 
Exactly the same observation here about the effects of the dreaded Permostat.
A wet clean sorted it for me.
 
Ron, My records don't attract hairs or fibres either and they haven't been treated with Permostat, a magic anti-static brush or an anti-static gun (all of which are a waste of money).

I hope a good wet clean of your records will restore them.
 
Permostat was the Devil's sperm. Every LP I've had which I treated as a student (quite a lot) has had a proper wash on a RCM to rid them of this useless gunk. Yes - it did get rid of static - and it also clogged up every stylus that ever trod the sludgy path. One of hifi's most useless "improvements".
 
no no at least permostat did something.
Whereas those little black triangles, the square of paper under the stand and the safety pin in the curtains.......
 
A VPI-16.5 unpermostated a bunch of records of mine rather successfully. Dreadful stuff, permostat that is.
 
rontoolsie said:
Lately I have been delving into my LP collection that dates back to the early 70's. Most of them still sound great and are suprisingly free of surface noise. There are however a few that I have owned from new, which I KNOW used to have silent surfaces and great sound (my cherished Nautilus 1/2 speed mastering of Claptons 'Just One Night' for instance) that now have massive amounts of surface noise and extreme distorsion like the cartridge is shagged, has a massive dust ball on its end or has been ploughed into with a rusty needle tracking at 50 grams- none of which are the case. And the surfaces look immaculate. However, ALL of these LPs so afflicted have that small red 'P' sticker on the label, indicating that at one time-probably in the early 1980s I had treated them with Permostat.

Now, I should note that not ALL of the Permostat treated LPs behave in this fashion, but without doubt ALL of the LPs that have this particular type of noise and breakup were Permostated. I know that if the LPs had been originally shagged, I wouldn't have bothered Permostating them at the time.

I am pretty sure that there must be some nasty interaction involving the Permostat, the long duration of its contact with the vinyl surface (30 years) and whatever formulation of vinyl has been used for the LPs so affected. I estimate that about 1/3 of LPs I have Permostated have this problem, and not a single one of the dozens I have played that have not been treated are suffering.

Anybody else have had this experience?
Click to expand...

You should've cleaned your Permostated LPs with a wet/vac cleaner immediately after application, to take away this groove deposit.

I bought a Nitty Gritty over 20 years ago and, from using it, discovered the need for Permostat ... which I have been using ever since. No surface noise/stylus dust ball sounds here, I assure you. :D

And no static, either - even on LPs done 20 years ago.

Regards,

Andy
 
Sound of penny dropping here - thanks for this thread, it explains a lot about the lp's I mostly cared about in the days but I kmow Keith Monks cleaning restores them to luminous silence

Is the symptom the one that sounds like grit when played?
 
The last time I heard an LP played with such high distortion levels was when I tried to play one with naked cantilever (the stylus was missing). A funked up Permostat LP sounds maybe 80% as bad- no joke.
 
Lately I have been delving into my LP collection that dates back to the early 70's. Most of them still sound great and are suprisingly free of surface noise. There are however a few that I have owned from new, which I KNOW used to have silent surfaces and great sound (my cherished Nautilus 1/2 speed mastering of Claptons 'Just One Night' for instance) that now have massive amounts of surface noise and extreme distorsion like the cartridge is shagged, has a massive dust ball on its end or has been ploughed into with a rusty needle tracking at 50 grams- none of which are the case. And the surfaces look immaculate. However, ALL of these LPs so afflicted have that small red 'P' sticker on the label, indicating that at one time-probably in the early 1980s I had treated them with Permostat.
Click to expand...

I could have written thos exact words myself!

Except.

I would say that the surface noise was there from the very moment one applied the dreadful stuff. In 1983 I finally bought a decent turntable (Ariston RD80, a HUGE improvement from the ERA I hade before). Some time afterwards I bought Police - Synchronicity, it was great, I thought, with very low surface noise, a prime candidate to be 'preserved' with Permostat. Applied it and played it again.
Destroyed. The infamous noice was there. Never to go away.

You should've cleaned your Permostated LPs with a wet/vac cleaner immediately after application, to take away this groove deposit.

I bought a Nitty Gritty over 20 years ago and, from using it, discovered the need for Permostat ... which I have been using ever since. No surface noise/stylus dust ball sounds here, I assure you.
Click to expand...

Do you think one can redo it? Apply P again and then clean it immediately?

JohanR
 
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