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Patel, Johnson, taking the knee and racism

ks.234 said:
Travellers do not have a right to park in school car parks or anywhere except authorised sites.

Traveller do not have extra rights to health or education. The LEA is responsible for educating traveller children.

Vaccines are not mandatory. They might be required for certain jobs and are recommended for children attending school
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Aren't any vaccines mandatory in the UK?
 
oldius said:
Right now, in PMQs, Boris has once again refused to apologise for his 'Piccaninnies with watermelon smiles' comment, stating that it is easy to take things out of context. We have a problem with racism in the UK and it begins with him.
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That context being a dog-whistle column in a hard-right Brexit-ultra newspaper.

PS The deflection onto social media moderation is seriously pissing me off. The dog-whistles, far-right nationalism and xenophobia come right from the heart government itself. As ever the political right answers every question or criticism by ramping up authoritarianism.
 
tuga said:
As a recent resident of the UK I was surprised by many things here, one of them being the freedoms granted to gypsies and travellers. It is a hard balance to strike because on the one hand you wish to preserve their lifestyle but there are downsides such as crime and nuisance.

In Portugal gypsies (I don't think we've had travellers for a century of two) were invited to settle and offered council housing. Their main sources of income were drug dealing and the selling of counterfeit goods in county fairs. Homeschooling is almost unheard of and gypsy children are required to go to school like those of any other ethnicity. Things seem to be working well, even if there are occasional altercations between them.

But with the expansion of the EU many Roma gypsies moved West and some have set camp around the large cities. They're mostly beggers and petty-thieves.
There are calls from the left wing to provide these families with council housing and give them full resident status, and shouts from the right to kick them out. Right-wing populism is on the rise and many support the expulsion.

Communities are made of culture and identity, it is difficult to embrace and integrate foreigners if/when they are not willing to adjust their habits and adapt to the local practices and traditions. It's been one of the greatest challenges since the times of the Romans...
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In many ways travellers of various types are outside of "normal" society and should not be expected to conform to societal norms.
Unfortunately people tend to hate and resent that and those which are different to themselves. This is how we get racism, homophobia, xenophobia etc. The way travellers are treated is no different.

This will effect not just traditional Roma and Irish travellers but also the "New Travellers" (of which I was one for a year or so back in the late 80's) and the fast growing community of "Van People" who simply can't afford a flat or house and are not willing to work silly hours doing the worst jobs to line the pockets of fat cat tory landlords... which is probably where this new legislation comes from! "The system" demands that you work like a slave to pay already wealthy mortgage companies and landlords and that you pay taxes and are generally controlled and monitored in many ways. The "reward" can be a very comfortable life for those who are willing and able to do the systems bidding like good little well behaved people. People who for their own reasons don't want to be a part of that system should have that choice and not be forced into the grey, soul destroying conformity of the 9 -5, the commute, the property ladder, the being chained to one place and one existence in order to "feed the system" by your "daily grind".
Being a traveller is a hard life at the best of times and without many of the every day amenities and little luxuries most take for granted. Those who wish to live on the road should not be prevented from doing so by legislation predicated on and rewarding other peoples "xenophobia", racism if you like, and hatred of those different from themselves.
 
oldius said:
Right now, in PMQs, Boris has once again refused to apologise for his 'Piccaninnies with watermelon smiles' comment, stating that it is easy to take things out of context. We have a problem with racism in the UK and it begins with him.
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Boris Johnson said in PMQs; “We made it absolutely clear that no one should boo taking the knee”

Did he?
 
ks.234 said:
Boris Johnson said in PMQs; “We made it absolutely clear that no one should boo taking the knee”

Did he?
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Nope

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...o-condemn-fans-booing-england-taking-the-knee

Asked about the booing before England’s match against Romania at the Riverside on Sunday, the prime minister’s official spokesman seemed to offer support to both sides of an increasingly heated argument.

The prime minister “fully respects the right of those who choose to peacefully protest and make their feelings known”, the spokesman said, adding: “On taking the knee, specifically, the prime minister is more focused on action rather than gestures. We have taken action with things like the Commission on Racial and Ethnic Disparities and that’s what he’s focused on delivering.”
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Arkless Electronics said:
In many ways travellers of various types are outside of "normal" society and should not be expected to conform to societal norms.
Unfortunately people tend to hate and resent that and those which are different to themselves. This is how we get racism, homophobia, xenophobia etc. The way travellers are treated is no different.

This will effect not just traditional Roma and Irish travellers but also the "New Travellers" (of which I was one for a year or so back in the late 80's) and the fast growing community of "Van People" who simply can't afford a flat or house and are not willing to work silly hours doing the worst jobs to line the pockets of fat cat tory landlords... which is probably where this new legislation comes from! "The system" demands that you work like a slave to pay already wealthy mortgage companies and landlords and that you pay taxes and are generally controlled and monitored in many ways. The "reward" can be a very comfortable life for those who are willing and able to do the systems bidding like good little well behaved people. People who for their own reasons don't want to be a part of that system should have that choice and not be forced into the grey, soul destroying conformity of the 9 -5, the commute, the property ladder, the being chained to one place and one existence in order to "feed the system" by your "daily grind".
Being a traveller is a hard life at the best of times and without many of the every day amenities and little luxuries most take for granted. Those who wish to live on the road should not be prevented from doing so by legislation predicated on and rewarding other peoples "xenophobia", racism if you like, and hatred of those different from themselves.
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"xenophobia", racism if you like, and hatred? Really?

I have nothing against people who choose (or are forced by fate) to live "outside" of the system. As long as they abide by the (same) rules (as the rest of us) and do not engage in illegal activities.
There are many things which I find surprising in the UK, and which you as someone born and bred here take as normal. "Travellers" are one of them.
 
Its foolish to celebrate the benefits of immigration and cultural enrichment but remain wilfully blind to some of the real issues the melting pot can give rise to.
Shutting down discussion with the hovering fingers over the 'racist' button helps no one, solves nothing, understands even less.
Here's a piece from the Observer from a couple of years back regarding racial tensions between East European Roma and the Pakistani community in Shefield and similar (ongoing ) tensions/issues over in Liverpool. Worth a read; https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/nov/03/roma-tire-shouldering-blame-boiling-pot-communities
 
tuga said:
Aren't any vaccines mandatory in the UK?
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No, vaccines are not compulsory in the UK, however engagement is encouraged and is funded through the National Health Service. Participation in the childhood vaccination programme fluctuates, and rates are declining, but take up is in the range 90-95% depending on the vaccine.

https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/vaccination-coverage-for-children-and-mothers-1#background

Flu vaccines are available every winter for the over 65's, take up is around 75%.
 
zarniwoop said:
Nope

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...o-condemn-fans-booing-england-taking-the-knee
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I hope they have a fire extinguisher on standby:

EESMGAwXUAEfpa-.jpg
 
Tony L said:
That context being a dog-whistle column in a hard-right Brexit-ultra newspaper.

PS The deflection onto social media moderation is seriously pissing me off. The dog-whistles, far-right nationalism and xenophobia come right from the heart government itself. As ever the political right answers every question or criticism by ramping up authoritarianism.
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Yep. So many problems with politics, media, society in general end up being passed off as social media problems. In the end I think it's down to the fact that it's journalists that write all this stuff up and journalists hate being called ____s on Twitter. You won't agree but I think Carol Cadwalladr deserves a special mention here ;).

In this case there's also a desperate attempt to contain all this by passing it off as a football thing. Probably not the first time that's happened either, although it's never occurred to me before.
 
oldius said:
They will not say that they support it because their support does not. One read of the Daily Mail continues to label the practice as virtue signalling, supporting a Marxist organisation, or woke, and no amount of explanation will be listened to, nor will change minds.
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But Johnson has been put on the spot over this, essentially being asked 'Which side are you on?'. (And note that Priti Patel found a excuse to not be in the Commons to answer questions this morning).

I suspect the abuse of Rashford et al post the Euro 2020 final will have the effect of defusing the criticism of taking the knee, and make it harder for Tories to oppose it. I expect the Daily Mail will backtrack on the issue, because it can sense which way the wind is blowing; supporting the booing starts to look even more like condoning racism, and whilst the Mail likes to do the 'nod and wink' stuff, it will probably tone down its coverage.
 
The “urgent question” was utter bollocks, both main parties choosing to persecute social media businesses in an act of authoritarian deflection rather than focus on the actual racists, far-right nationalism and xenophobia that clearly exists in our society.

Next: all books need to be banned as some may contain offensive views.

PS I’d actually like to see GDPR relaxed so social media entities can ‘out’ racists and hopefully get them sacked or otherwise identified in their own communities. Allow them to publish registration emails, IP addresses beneath the offensive post. The blame for behaviour/attitude must lie firmly with the poster, not with the delivery platform. Facebook, Twitter etc are not racist endeavours, they are just a communication method like a pen and paper or telephone. It is utter hypocrisy seeing either the Conservative Party or Labour, both with a well documented history of structural racism, shrieking for authoritarianism in an attempt to pass the buck. Just shameful IMHO.
 
I had a sudden reflux of paranoia there. As the social meedja companies can't say who the posters are, how do we know they are the usual suspects (otherwise known as Brexit Gammon) and not a Russian bot farm? No, I don't think I can contemplate that idea. As you were.
 
tuga said:
"xenophobia", racism if you like, and hatred? Really?

I have nothing against people who choose (or are forced by fate) to live "outside" of the system. As long as they abide by the (same) rules (as the rest of us) and do not engage in illegal activities.
There are many things which I find surprising in the UK, and which you as someone born and bred here take as normal. "Travellers" are one of them.
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That speaks volumes on how little you know about this! Unfortunately society allows the most egregious hatred and discrimination against travellers and there is no protection for them.

See how few people in this thread are even bothering to discuss the matter? That's because most of them are the same hate filled, xenophobic against travellers types as those who vandalise caravans and vans of travellers and who get petitions up to try and evict travellers every time they stop... anywhere... for any reason... It's "taken as read" that 90% of those reading this would do anything to avoid any traveller being within half a mile of them
Oh they'll all defend the rights of black people and LGBT etc but travellers??? Get the pitch forks out and light the burning torches!!
 
Arkless Electronics said:
That speaks volumes on how little you know about this! Unfortunately society allows the most egregious hatred and discrimination against travellers and there is no protection for them.

See how few people in this thread are even bothering to discuss the matter? That's because most of them are the same hate filled, xenophobic against travellers types as those who vandalise caravans and vans of travellers and who get petitions up to try and evict travellers every time they stop... anywhere... for any reason... It's "taken as read" that 90% of those reading this would do anything to avoid any traveller being within half a mile of them
Oh they'll all defend the rights of black people and LGBT etc but travellers??? Get the pitch forks out and light the burning torches!!
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I didn't know abiut the chasing and the agressions.
This is a very violent country, I'll agree to that.
 
Arkless Electronics said:
That speaks volumes on how little you know about this! Unfortunately society allows the most egregious hatred and discrimination against travellers and there is no protection for them.

See how few people in this thread are even bothering to discuss the matter? That's because most of them are the same hate filled, xenophobic against travellers types as those who vandalise caravans and vans of travellers and who get petitions up to try and evict travellers every time they stop... anywhere... for any reason... It's "taken as read" that 90% of those reading this would do anything to avoid any traveller being within half a mile of them
Oh they'll all defend the rights of black people and LGBT etc but travellers??? Get the pitch forks out and light the burning torches!!
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How nice to see such views. Whenever travellers arrive, there is an immediate desire to move them on and the reporting is usually inflammatory and offensive.

I taught in a school with a 30% traveller population and wrote my thesis on education in the Gypsy and Romany traveller community.
 
oldius said:
I taught in a school with a 30% traveller population and wrote my thesis on education in the Gypsy and Romany traveller community.
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In 1988, I did my major dissertation for my BEd, on educating children outside of the mainstream. I worked with Kirklees Council, and amongst my case studies were a Romany traveller family, and a family with a very gifted child being schooled at home.

Just last week I sat in our local pub garden and chatted to a Romany traveller family who were enjoying a pint or 2.
 
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