"Overbearing aromas of pretentious rubbish"

[Rasher]

I did just take advantage of the Tesco offer to get half a dozen Chateauneuf du Pape for £7.50 a bottle too.

Chateauneuf du Pape is just a brand umbrella now and doesn't actually tell you very much at all. It could be anything in there.

After being a fan of the modern producers for a long time I have now had a craving to go back to the old skool French wines, but find that in restaurants and wine bars it is difficult to get something like this now. I love New World wines, but just hankered after a bit of retro.

When winter is over and the spring comes I'll go onto some Italian reds and probably stay with it for the summer, but right now with it getting cold and having a log fire going, it has to be old skool French.

 

[SteveS1]

Nearly every "taste test" I've seen where people are blind tested with wines ranging from budget to reasonably expensive £5-£20 for example. The wine that most people thought was the most expensive is always the mid priced wine, (around £7-8 in my example). Everyone can pick out the cheap bottle almost without fail, but they have a lot more difficultly choosing between the two/three more expensive options.

Yes but those tests depend on what the folk running them are trying to establish. Let's assume the same grapes/region - although that often isn't the test a tabloid looking to run a "it's all nonsense type story" would run.

It is dead easy to find (say) a very nice £7-£8 bottle of Burgundy (Pinot Noir), and a good but fairly average one at £16-20. On the other hand, it's possible to pay £20 and end up with one that is quite memorable......that would be a real stretch at £7, so provided you are comparing the best at each price I don't think anyone interested in the wine would have much trouble picking them. Randomly taken then yes there is no guarantee that a more expensive bottle will be preferred. Bit like Hi Fi again.


All of it makes the Hi Fi sound better.

 

[matthewr]

It is dead easy to find (say) a very nice £7-£8 bottle of Burgundy (Pinot Noir), and a good but fairly average one at £16-20.

Nice Pinot Noir for £7 is not that easy to find in my experience as it's not a grape that does affordable very well.

The top tip for Pinot vlaue used to be Central Otago but everyone seems to have caught on to that now. The Felton Roads have gone mental in price now

 

[gassor]

Nice Pinot Noir for £7 is not that easy to find in my experience as it's not a grape that does affordable very well.

The top tip for Pinot vlaue used to be Central Otago but everyone seems to have caught on to that now. The Felton Roads have gone mental in price now

New Zealand Pinot is rated very highly, should go well with the old turkey on the day.

 

[SteveS1]

Nice Pinot Noir for £7 is not that easy to find in my experience as it's not a grape that does affordable very well.

No, that's right although there was a Bouchard available this year at about that level and it was pretty good. But generally at that price I would go for a good Beaujolais rather than a cheap Burgundy.

The point of that illustration was really to say that if comparisons were going to be done it isn't just a case of like with like with the type - each price category will have poor/average/good/excellent (for it's cost). So if you want to compare what the extra cash can buy - get some advice and compare good with good.

I justify spending a bit more on the basis that the price of the cork and the bottle is common to both - so anything spent in addition should go on the wine quality. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.

 

[Stunsworth]

Everyone can pick out the cheap bottle almost without fail, but they have a lot more difficultly choosing between the two/three more expensive options.

That more or less sums up my experience. I can tell the poor wine, but once it gets past acceptable I'm struggling.

After saying that, I don't recognise the 'all French wine are full of tanin' experience described earlier. There are some like that - the worst I ever had was a red sampled at a cooperative near Perpignan years ago. That could have stripped paint at 20 paces.

This thread reminds me that I must dig out the DVD of Sideways over Christmas.

 

[stevec67]

That more or less sums up my experience. I can tell the poor wine, but once it gets past acceptable I'm struggling.

So you need to put the time in. My winemaker pal can do this, then again it's his job and he's been tasting wine day in day out for 25 years. My mother can't tell the difference between ESLs and cabinet speakers. It's only music.

After saying that, I don't recognise the 'all French wine are full of tanin' experience described earlier.

Because they aren't. Some are, esp the Bordeaux wines. Medoc in particular spends 28 days fermenting on its skins. This gives you enormous tannin extraction and why they need to be aged to be at their best. A young Medoc is grim indeed. Other wines spend only a few days maceration and have less tannin. Don't expect them to age in the same way though. The supermarkets aren't interested of course, when did you last see a New World wine that was more than 2 years old?

 

[matthewr]

when did you last see a New World wine that was more than 2 years old?

I have some Felton Road (NZ) Pinot Noir from 2009 and one bottle of d'Arenberg (Oz) Dead Arm Shiraz from 2007 and 3 or 4 Dog Point (NZ) Sauvignon Blancs from 2010.

That is presuming my Dad is telling the truth and has not drunk them.

 

[avole]

Best Burgundy is from Gevrey Chambertin, Fixin, and that strip just south of Dijon.

 

[TPA]

"A sh1tty little wine, with a whiff of desperation about it."

I can't stand wine bores, there is absolutely nothing worse than meeting someone for lunch and they studiously examine the wine list pulling faces and raising their eyebrows, going through some sort of ritual. And then the tedium of having to wait whilst they test it. Oh god, I could so often have got up and walked away. If they knew anything about the subject, they'd have skimmed through it, seen something they fancy, checked I'm ok with it and ordered it. Peasants.

 

[Guest432]

I'm going to give M&S a try as my mum has an employee discount card (retired) so I can get 25 or 50% off there.

Was trying to remember before what I used to drink with an ex GF when we lived together and it was Faustino V, we probably drank about 1-2 bottles per day between us. Used to like this a lot as it was quite thick and heavy if you know what I mean.

Something I used to drink when I lived in London was called Howard Park cab merlot and I used to get it from the booze dept at Selfridges. Can't find it at all now but remember it used to taste fantastic but was about £50 a bottle. Can't afford anything near that now but does anyone know a make that would be similar in style? Don't drink wine very often and would rather spend more on a good bottle and drink it less frequently.

 

[Tigerjones]

Give this a try from M&S.

http://www.marksandspencer.com/Pirq...gnon-2011/dp/B007MI26T6#CustomerReviewsHeader

 

[PsB]

This is a refreshing thread: a wide range of opinions, some at odds with each other (and blind testing proves that any minimally competent red is impossible to distinguish from another: what's not to like?)

I like French reds as they are the wines I am the most familiar with and know a little bit about, but am quite happy drinking South American or Spanish or whatever. The New World wines can get a bit irritating sometimes with their emphasis on big, over ripe fruit and big tannins and 14.5% alcohol and big everything else, but they can be fun just like having a black forest cake with lots of whipped cream can be an occasional pleasure. And all that sugar makes them great for making quick red wine sauces.

I have mostly given up trying to explain the pleasures of French wines to people abroad: it makes me look like a wine snob and success only puts up the price of the wines I like the most. Also, there are so many good wines everywhere now that it is silly to restrict yourself unnecessarily. There was a lot of dross produced in France under the AOC system. The New World competition has helped to raise standards and put some of the less competitive vignerons under pressure or out of business - sad for the vigneron but good for us consumers. So if people prefer Shiraz to Syrah, or like their Sauvignon blanc to taste of grapefruit (a NZ peculiarity now imitated in some French regions, perhaps because the wine consultants tell the winegrowers it's the thing to do), good for them. They are happy, and so am I.

 

[PsB]

PS: many of the deals in French wines are to be found in the vins de table made by small independent producers. But some of them are charging silly prices for New World style product, so you have to be selective and talk to your truste dealer about what you like and don't like.

 

[Tigerjones]

This is a refreshing thread: a wide range of opinions, some at odds with each other (and blind testing proves that any minimally competent red is impossible to distinguish from another: what's not to like?)

I like French reds as they are the wines I am the most familiar with and know a little bit about, but am quite happy drinking South American or Spanish or whatever. The New World wines can get a bit irritating sometimes with their emphasis on big, over ripe fruit and big tannins and 14.5% alcohol and big everything else, but they can be fun just like having a black forest cake with lots of whipped cream can be an occasional pleasure. And all that sugar makes them great for making quick red wine sauces.

I have mostly given up trying to explain the pleasures of French wines to people abroad: it makes me look like a wine snob and success only puts up the price of the wines I like the most. Also, there are so many good wines everywhere now that it is silly to restrict yourself unnecessarily. There was a lot of dross produced in France under the AOC system. The New World competition has helped to raise standards and put some of the less competitive vignerons under pressure or out of business - sad for the vigneron but good for us consumers. So if people prefer Shiraz to Syrah, or like their Sauvignon blanc to taste of grapefruit (a NZ peculiarity now imitated in some French regions, perhaps because the wine consultants tell the winegrowers it's the thing to do), good for them. They are happy, and so am I.

Excellent post.

 

[Mick P]

Chaps

I am considerably more lucky than yows.

Being in Spain, I am currently ruining my liver by drinking the best value wine in the world - wine from Spain. The quality is at an all time high, volumes are up and prices are down.

You can buy a good wine (say a Temperanillo) for about 3 euros and a 6 euro bottle is fan bloody tastic. You get these prices by buying inland and not on the Tourista coast. Good soil, lots of sunshine and cheap labour makes for an expanding industry.

I got a couple hundred bottles which I bought up for 1 euro a bottle from a departing expat and all I got to figure out is how to get them back to England. Alternatively I will get really assholed before I return to join you cheerful lot.

Regards

Mick

 

[stevec67]

Fixed this for you:

I can't stand hifi bores, there is absolutely nothing worse than asking someone to play a bit of music and they studiously examine the racks of records pulling faces and raising their eyebrows, going through some sort of ritual. And then the tedium of having to wait whilst they clean the disc and twiddle wires, then sit there in silence stroking their chin and expecting you to do the same. Oh god, I could so often have got up and walked away. If they knew anything about music, they'd have skimmed the rack, seen something they fancy, checked I'm ok with it and stuck it in the player Peasants.

Feel better now?

 

[Joe Hutch]

'I’m sitting in my Ladbroke Grove
Waiting for the NME
They’re coming down to interview me
But I haven’t told the others, ‘cos they’d mess around and burp, and tell the truth and laugh at me for drinking a classic red bottled by a medal-winning estate on the banks of the Garonne'

HMHB: Used To Be In Evil Gazebo

 

[gassor]

Daughters have ordered me a case of reds from Laithwaites for Xmas. Might have something to do with Rasher.

Its the half price deal, so ticks all the boxes for me.

 

[Mullardman]

Well, as some may have gathered, I know little about wine but I do know what I like.

I'm presently necking a bottle of 2012 Hardy's Stamp Shiraz-cab wot cost me £4:99 from Co-Op. Actually, I bought two bottles and got £1:70 off for a coupon from a previous purchase and another coupon for a quid or so for my next purchase.

At this rate I'll soon be able to buy wine at prices which bring murmurs of approval from the cognoscenti.

The 'Stamp' is a bit watery and 'thin' bodied for my tastes, but it will do.

I am not one of those people who tries to hide their alcohol habit behind a smokescreen of taste/discernment/expertise/inquisitiveness or whatever. If it didn't give me a booze hit I wouldn't touch the stuff.

Dunno if they do alcohol free wine, but I did once try alcohol free beer. Jeez! Dreadful stuff to which water, or any soft drink would be preferable.

Mull