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Outsiders look at the US healthcare "system"

That is beyond my understanding. How can American citizens put up with that awful, corrupt system of theirs?
Living in France – or in the UK – is a blessing as regards healthcare.
I’ve never had to spend a penny for (very) costly surgery. In the US, I would have had to sell the house and then borrow more money from my bank.
Appalling.
 
chartz said:
That is beyond my understanding. How can American citizens put up with that awful, corrupt system of theirs?
Living in France – or in the UK – is a blessing as regards healthcare.
I’ve never had to spend a penny for (very) costly surgery. In the US, I would have had to sell the house and then borrow more money from my bank.
Appalling.
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Yebbut, yebbut ... all those middle class Americans don’t have to fund the shirkers and Health tourists that we do, they are soooo much better off. They don’t value free stuff, much better to really have to dig deep to pay for it so they can feel so special.
 
cutting42 said:
Yebbut, yebbut ... all those middle class Americans don’t have to fund the shirkers and Health tourists that we do, they are soooo much better off. They don’t value free stuff, much better to really have to dig deep to pay for it so they can feel so special.
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Beats me.
 
I don't think that I will be able to visit the USA ever again as health insurance with COVID lingering around will be insane
 
The average American does not want to pay anything by way of straight-foward tax, and they certainly do not want to pay tax for something that they aren't using and may never use.
As was pointed out here quite some while back, by a US citizen, health care functions in a completely different way to the UK, which complicates things enormously. In the US, because the majority of people have insurance, there is an over-riding urge to get as much as possible from the system, so care costs can be exhorbitant. Here, under the NHS, quality of life, not life at any cost, plays an important part.
 
Social Security is a blessing. This contributory and compulsory system is probably the best there is in the world.
It is also the fairest.
Not sure they would understand it over the Atlantic, but it allows the poorest to be treated as well as the richest.
That’s how my daughter had an extremely complex brain surgery by the world’s finest specialists, at zero cost.
We discussed with wealthy American patients in the service who came for the same treatments. Only they had to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for it.
Is this fair?
 
I don't think fairness should enter the conversation, because everyone has their unique version of it.

I have never lived without the NHS, so can only contemplate things without it. I will definitely stick with my contributions as is. That said, if you do some dity maths, the NHS costs a UK taxpayer over £4K per year. (Something like 130 billion annual costs, split between maybe 40 million people.)
 
I think the NHS is one of mankind’s greatest achievements but a renowned US head of neuro surgery at NYU medical centre who has since become a good friend told me that the trouble with “socialised” medicine was that it gives pretty good overall healthcare, but not the best.
In the US he maintained their best was far better than UK best, but very expensive.

I’ve struggled to argue against him.

He saved my 4 year old daughter’s life 25 years ago doing brain surgery the NHS could not do, despite referral to all the top UK neuro centres we were told to take her home and wait for the end. It was paid for by the UK govt who acknowledged it could not be done here.
 
chartz said:
That is beyond my understanding. How can American citizens put up with that awful, corrupt system of theirs?
Click to expand...

A few things -
1) Money. Healthcare is 20% of US GDP. The healthcare industry has deeper pockets than the military when it comes to paying off politicians and running misinformation campaigns to defeat citizen sponsored initiatives. Combine this with very weak poltical campaign finance laws and it's hard to see that the costs will ever be reigned in, because to do so would mean pay cuts for plenty of healthcare executives, and quite a few specialist doctors.
2) Propaganda. Plenty of Americans are still afraid of "the dangers of socialized medicine", and more widely the dangers of socialism. It apparently doesn't occur to them that the police and fire services are socialized.
3) Americans are told every day of their lives that they live in the greatest country ever to exist. I think it simply doesn't occur to many to look beyond their border to see if some things might be done elsewhere.
 
Bob McC said:
I think the NHS is one of mankind’s greatest achievements but a renowned US head of neuro surgery at NYU medical centre who has since become a good friend told me that the trouble with “socialised” medicine was that it gives pretty good overall healthcare, but not the best.
In the US he maintained their best was far better than UK best, but very expensive.
Click to expand...

In a few isolated cases he is right, but at a societal level the US spends twice a much as most peer countries and has one of the lowest life expectancies of any developed nation.

Also, in the past 25 years healthcare costs in the US have increased dramatically compared to peer nations. The main reason IMO is that Wall St discovered that people will pay almost anything when their health is in jeopardy. Thus small Dr practices have been bought up by large for profit corporations and private equity companies and the charges for even routine care have rocketed. And because there is no cap on what can be charged, and no need to disclose prices to prospective patients it's nearly impossible to shop around.

The charge for a 10 minute Dr office visit used to be around $100 when I moved to the US. Now it's around $300. I once had a physical with a nurse practitioner (not a doctor) and a flu shot and the charges to my insurance were around $500.

Great about your daughter though.
 
sean99 said:
A few things -
1) Money. Healthcare is 20% of US GDP. The healthcare industry has deeper pockets than the military when it comes to paying off politicians and running misinformation campaigns to defeat citizen sponsored initiatives. Combine this with very weak poltical campaign finance laws and it's hard to see that the costs will ever be reigned in, because to do so would mean pay cuts for plenty of healthcare executives, and quite a few specialist doctors.
2) Propaganda. Plenty of Americans are still afraid of "the dangers of socialized medicine", and more widely the dangers of socialism. It apparently doesn't occur to them that the police and fire services are socialized.
3) Americans are told every day of their lives that they live in the greatest country ever to exist. I think it simply doesn't occur to many to look beyond their border to see if some things might be done elsewhere.
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regarding point 3 : Britons are told every day of their lives that the NHS is the best healthcare system in the world. I think it simply doesn’t occur to many…
 
Bob McC said:
I’ve struggled to argue against him.
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True at that point in time, but being in the right place has been a requirement for all developments in healthcare. I remember the very first organ transplants - done in S Africa.

Where have some of the major developments in C19 treatments been thought-up, tested and proved? In the UK
 
sean99 said:
In a few isolated cases he is right, but at a societal level the US spends twice a much as most peer countries and has one of the lowest life expectancies of any developed nation.

Also, in the past 25 years healthcare costs in the US have increased dramatically compared to peer nations. The main reason IMO is that Wall St discovered that people will pay almost anything when their health is in jeopardy. Thus small Dr practices have been bought up by large for profit corporations and private equity companies and the charges for even routine care have rocketed. And because there is no cap on what can be charged, and no need to disclose prices to prospective patients it's nearly impossible to shop around.

The charge for a 10 minute Dr office visit used to be around $100 when I moved to the US. Now it's around $300. I once had a physical with a nurse practitioner (not a doctor) and a flu shot and the charges to my insurance were around $500.

Great about your daughter though.
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Isolated?
You mean like cancer surgery?
Why are the UK cancer survival rates so much worse than most developed countries including the US?
 
Vinny said:
True at that point in time, but being in the right place has been a requirement for all developments in healthcare. I remember the very first organ transplants - done in S Africa.

Where have some of the major developments in C19 treatments been thought-up, tested and proved? In the UK
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Do you mean The one that causes blood clots.
 
sean99 said:
A few things -
1) Money. Healthcare is 20% of US GDP. The healthcare industry has deeper pockets than the military when it comes to paying off politicians and running misinformation campaigns to defeat citizen sponsored initiatives. Combine this with very weak poltical campaign finance laws and it's hard to see that the costs will ever be reigned in, because to do so would mean pay cuts for plenty of healthcare executives, and quite a few specialist doctors.
2) Propaganda. Plenty of Americans are still afraid of "the dangers of socialized medicine", and more widely the dangers of socialism. It apparently doesn't occur to them that the police and fire services are socialized.
3) Americans are told every day of their lives that they live in the greatest country ever to exist. I think it simply doesn't occur to many to look beyond their border to see if some things might be done elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Not to mention the colossal "defence " budget.
 
Again, lack of funding. Some doctors have argued that US cancer stats are not comparable with other nations because the US screens much more aggressively and treats much more aggressively, but the longevity figures don't point to an increase in lifespan, so it's not clear that the aggressive screening and treatment is a net benefit to the patients. Sure makes a lot of money for the healthcare industry, though.
 
Bob McC said:
Isolated?
You mean like cancer surgery?
Why are the UK cancer survival rates so much worse than most developed countries including the US?
Click to expand...
You're focusing in too narrowly, probably because American healthcare (paid for by the NHS if I understand your original post properly) saved your daughter's life.
Look at the overall picture. The USA has pockets of extremely high quality medical care that are available only to those who have the insurance and live in the right area. Our way of funding healthcare does limit some of the options in extreme cases, but for the everyday injury or illness the treatment here is as good as in the States and doesn't threaten the patient with bankruptcy.
 
Healthcare should be free, period. Insurance companies for it in the US are an aberration.
The system simply doesn't work (unless you are a well to do patient of course).
Nobody should go to say the A&E and wonder whether they will be able to afford the cost.
That's another aberration.
 
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