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Old vs ‘new’ Croft

K

kevinrt

pfm Member
I was just looking at a Croft pre-amplifier on ebay (just perusing, no intention of buying). It’s a Series 3 and has approx. 13 valves.

The later Croft pre-amplifiers (e.g. Micro 25) have, I think, 3 valves, so it appears that there was quite a change in the basic design.

It’s not like the more minor variations between different years of production of, for example, the Micro 25, which people frequently refer to, but what looks like a more significant shift in approach.

I can’t find anything written about this, but I’m sure some here will have tried both along the way and have some knowledge and personal perspective on the differences.

regards

Kevin
 
Ignore what I said above. I just rechecked and you’re right.

Quite different to a ‘7’ series power amp though, so the difference is still quite marked between old and new.
 
I’m still wondering why Croft amplifiers would have gone from needing 8-10-13 valves to just 1 or 2.

Did technology move on so that 1 or 2 valves could now do the job that previously needed 13? Did he redesign his circuits (presumably an improvement) so that large numbers of valves were no longer necessary?
 
Totally different designs.
Glen had many, many different designs, there was the early Micro preamplifier(s) then during the 90's there was the Vitale and Epoch preamplifier(s) then the 'Tranvalve' hybrid designs, then more recently and up until his passing there was the newer generation of Micro designs.
One thing most of his preamplifier generations had in common was that most generations used the same casework, so outwardly the Vitale and Epoch looked identical, same for the later models, generally the better models had the PSU in separate but matching chassis.
My memory is hazy with regard to all the different models available but there were many both pre and power amps, including some OTL designs sporting a forest of valves.
I don't think any of his stuff was widely reviewed or advertised but rather had a bit of a cult following and were highly regarded for their sound quality for those that were in the know.
 
Darren L said:
Totally different designs.
Glen had many, many different designs, there was the early Micro preamplifier(s) then during the 90's there was the Vitale and Epoch preamplifier(s) then the 'Tranvalve' hybrid designs, then more recently and up until his passing there was the newer generation of Micro designs.
One thing most of his preamplifier generations had in common was that most generations used the same casework, so outwardly the Vitale and Epoch looked identical, same for the later models, generally the better models had the PSU in separate but matching chassis.
My memory is hazy with regard to all the different models available but there were many both pre and power amps, including some OTL designs sporting a forest of valves.
I don't think any of his stuff was widely reviewed or advertised but rather had a bit of a cult following and were highly regarded for their sound quality for those that were in the know.
Click to expand...
My late friend Len Gregory used a Silver wired Croft phono stage to develop his cartridges. In about 1995 Len asked Mr Croft to make me a phono stage it was moving Iron/magnet loading to suit my then original Musicmaker MI cartridge it came in a Vitale case is 3 valve, 2 x ECC83 types & a Sovtek 12AX7WA as a cathode follower & was/is superb in my system far better than the 4 or 5 I tried including an EAR 534P Len lent me to try.
I rewired it in 99.99% pure soft (annealed) Silver wire as recommended by Mr Croft & Len

After Len & Mr Croft died another friend Mark Manwaring-White (Malvern Audio Research) added 2 x SUT's to the Croft for a Hana ML moving coil cartridge whilst retaining unswitched the MI/MM facility utilising all the original Croft equalisation circuit/s.

The Croft is as at home with the Hana ML as it was with the Musicmaker's 1/2/3 & laterly a pre-production Musicmaster I used over 25 ish year period. The Croft is, I genuinely believe irreplaceable in my system.
 
kevinrt said:
I was just looking at a Croft pre-amplifier on ebay (just perusing, no intention of buying). It’s a Series 3 and has approx. 13 valves.

The later Croft pre-amplifiers (e.g. Micro 25) have, I think, 3 valves, so it appears that there was quite a change in the basic design.

It’s not like the more minor variations between different years of production of, for example, the Micro 25, which people frequently refer to, but what looks like a more significant shift in approach.

I can’t find anything written about this, but I’m sure some here will have tried both along the way and have some knowledge and personal perspective on the differences.

regards

Kevin
Click to expand...
Hi Kevin can you share the eBay ad? I’m curious to see it.

I’m selling a Croft vitale pre amp. Also on eBay. Croft are just amazing in my view but not everyone agrees with this statement Ofcourse.
Cheers
 
Chris P said:
Hi Kevin can you share the eBay ad? I’m curious to see it.

I’m selling a Croft vitale pre amp. Also on eBay. Croft are just amazing in my view but not everyone agrees with this statement Ofcourse.
Cheers
Click to expand...

Hi Chris

this is the one I was looking at:

www.ebay.co.uk

CROFT 3R OTL VALVE POWER AMPLIFIER | eBay

CROFT 3r OTL VALVE POWER AMPLIFIER VGC CONDITION lovely sweet sounding amplifier Lovely Croft series v valve power amplifier circa 1993. Eight EL34's produce 30wpc. Good condition for age and full working order.
www.ebay.co.uk
 
This site contains affiliate links for which pink fish media may be compensated.
I have seen very very few mentions, as in opinions, or reviews of Croft power amp's but what few I have seen have been "ok".

Glenn made essentially the same pre-amp circuits (of which there were/are many) over the years and each one of those ended-up in cases with various names/model nos. on them. I have never seen one, but he even produced some pre's using entirely Soviet valves. He also made a very few Mega Micro's, which the owners tend to wax very lyrical over - they are two box multi-multi valve units and the few that I have seen have been in the split cream case that Glenn used a while back.

Apart from the Mega, which also seems to have varied despite the probable very small number ever made, the only way that you'll know what circuit is in any case, no matter the model etc. marked on the outside, is to look inside.

Beware Croft stand-alone phono stages. Unless they have been modified, they are designed to feed a valve pre', and tend to sound pretty poor into SS. Maybe apart from the Soviet valve versions, Glenn's phono stages probably never changed (much) - 2 x ECC83 (the same as EAR)..
 
Hi Vinny I'm ot 100% sure but maybe the RIAA R has a buffered output so can be used with solid state amps?
 
Mike1965 said:
Hi Vinny I'm ot 100% sure but maybe the RIAA R has a buffered output so can be used with solid state amps?
Click to expand...

Numerous times people have posted here that they do not like them. People who use them through a Croft pre' love them (including me).

Arkless has also pointed out that the stand-alones are not really well matched to SS pre's (impedance??). One or two people here have also had a stand-alone mod'd to better match SS.

If my understanding is at all close to reality, which it could so easily not be, the very last thing Glenn would include is some kind of buffer. All the ones that I have seen the inside of have been 2 x ECC83 - one triode for amplification, one for RIAA, each channel - 4 triodes, two in each ECC83.
 
I've got an RIAA (into a 25R Line) but I see there is another valve connected to the outputs in the R version so I assumed it might be a buffer.
 
I recently sold my 7R monos, they didn't get much use since I acquired a Series 5 MkIII (& revalved it with top of the range NOS Soviet EL84 equivalents).

I will never part with my Super Micro IV A pre, containing 2 x 6SN7 (or, more precisely, 1950s Soviet equivalents) in the line stage & 2 x 6SL7in the phono stage. Glenn Croft built a separate, made to order PSU for it.

It sounds different & to my ears better than the Mega Micro II I had Glenn update & upgrade in 2015, with 2x ECC83 in the phono stage, 2 x 12BH7A in the line stage & a whopping 12 valves in the PSU. I don't think I can part with that either though -- as was pointed out above, there's (almost?) nothing like it.

long story short: Croft's valve stuff is endgame as far as I'm concerned. I'd like one of Croft's OTLs, but his untimely death & Brexit have probably put paid to that.
 
eksiil said:
I recently sold my 7R monos, they didn't get much use since I acquired a Series 5 MkIII (& revalved it with top of the range NOS Soviet EL84 equivalents).

I will never part with my Super Micro IV A pre, containing 2 x 6SN7 (or, more precisely, 1950s Soviet equivalents) in the line stage & 2 x 6SL7in the phono stage. Glenn Croft built a separate, made to order PSU for it.

It sounds different & to my ears better than the Mega Micro II I had Glenn update & upgrade in 2015, with 2x ECC83 in the phono stage, 2 x 12BH7A in the line stage & a whopping 12 valves in the PSU. I don't think I can part with that either though -- as was pointed out above, there's (almost?) nothing like it.

long story short: Croft's valve stuff is endgame as far as I'm concerned. I'd like one of Croft's OTLs, but his untimely death & Brexit have probably put paid to that.
Click to expand...
Totally agree. I love mine 😎
 
Ah! At last, someone with a Croft with Soviet valves. As above - never seen one, just age-old pic's and comments.

It would be a seriously minor minority interest, but a museum containing one of each and every circuit used by Glenn in a pre' would not be small!!! LLOL
As to descriptions of what is doing what in any one of them, how they work, bar the very simplest - way, way beyond me. My own is a push-pull line/output (2 valve PS) but otherwise pretty straight forward, and much preferred here to a cathode follower output. I'd buy/try anything "unusual" in terms of build, that came up for sale, for curiosity's sake if nothing else, although very many that do come up just list the model as on the label, and post no internal pic's, which is all but useless.

RIP Glenn - quite the artisan :)
 
That's a museum I would like to visit! Especially if it was a working museum with maybe Tom Fletcher's turntables and Len Gregory's cartridges with many vintage speakers....

Sorry! Thread drift.
 
i'll see if I can get "before" and "after" pics uploaded of the SMIVA business end
what it looked like originally:
IMG-0078.jpg



& this is what remains after a standalone PSU was added by Glenn (+ other upgrades)

IMG-0239.jpg


I don't seem to have a pic of the innards of the PSU to hand, but it's the modern kind, with toroidal transformers etc.

I'm not sure whether links to other forums are allowed, but I have old pics of the Mega Micro II on AoS.
 
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