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Old Naim 12 and 120 sound

toto

toto

pfm Member
Hello.

A while ago, a friend brought 12s, snaps, and 120 to my house. I listened to it and liked the sound better than my 32.5 (fitted NJ cards and RSL cards).
It had a clear high range, was smooth, and had excellent energy.
What is the source of this sound? Looking at the inside, it appears that the resistors are carbon resistor rather than the metal film resistor used these days. Does this carbon resisters have a big effect on the sound?

toto
 
Layout does have a factor in the sound presentation. It was notable when Naim went from hand-drawn to CAD boards around the Olive period. But the NAP120 does have a boogie actor that belies its size. I think the use of carbon resistors in the early preamps does contribute significantly to the smooth sound.
If you can find a bolt-up NAP160 it'd be a killer system.
 
A long time ago, I sold my Nait 1 to fund the purchase of a 12/snaps/120. I was disappointed. Sounded lifeless. Sent it back to Naim for a service where they managed to blow up the amp and I had to wait an extra month for a replacement part. Never really understood what the fuss was about and mightily relieved when it was replaced with a 42/110 (my second favourite Naim combo).

Just shows that what works for one person does not always work for somebody else.

Have to agree with MJS; the 160 is special and is my favourite Naim power amp.
 
I'm going to experiment with changing the resistors of my NJ321 board to carbon resistors. I have a METCAL station.
 
MartinC said:
If I recall the 160 didn't have a regulator board, just used standard rectifier and smoothing caps.
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Correct, but neither does the NAP120. Early 160s had an unusual rectifier arrangement so that in effect the rails were made from two +36v rails in series.
 
Stemcor said:
A long time ago, I sold my Nait 1 to fund the purchase of a 12/snaps/120. I was disappointed. Sounded lifeless. Sent it back to Naim for a service where they managed to blow up the amp and I had to wait an extra month for a replacement part. Never really understood what the fuss was about and mightily relieved when it was replaced with a 42/110 (my second favourite Naim combo).

Just shows that what works for one person does not always work for somebody else.

Have to agree with MJS; the 160 is special and is my favourite Naim power amp.
Click to expand...
The old naim amplifiers are not consistent when it comes to sound quality in my experience. Especially Nac12s and 120s where there are really good ones along with examples that are nothing at all.
 
Svein said:
The old naim amplifiers are not consistent when it comes to sound quality in my experience. Especially Nac12s and 120s where there are really good ones along with examples that are nothing at all.
Click to expand...
I’m pretty sure a good repair shop specialized in Naim products can bring it to life and make them sing as they should, no matter if it’s a good or bad one.
Their circuit are rather simple and they used standard off the shelf parts back in those days.
 
Gervais Cote said:
I’m pretty sure a good repair shop specialized in Naim products can bring it to life and make them sing as they should, no matter if it’s a good or bad one.
Their circuit are rat simple and they used standard off the shelf parts back in those days.
Click to expand...

Yes, but that's not a rule. Stemcor had his unit at Naim. Mediocre examples are not saved by a service.
 
Stemcor said:
relieved when it was replaced with a 42/110 (my second favourite Naim combo).
Click to expand...
This was my intro. to Naim during the early eighties; used from a Canterbury shop, I remember. 30 years later with 552 and 4 x 135s plus the rest.....Time to jump ship before addiction caught hold !

It seems I was a silly boy back then because I acquired a bolt-down 160 from somewhere and I think I had a 32.5 then. I almost immediately traded it out for a 250 and NAT 101; guess I must've tried it but it did look a bit crude c/f the sleek 250 et al.
 
MJS said:
Layout does have a factor in the sound presentation. It was notable when Naim went from hand-drawn to CAD boards around the Olive period.
Click to expand...
This may be why the Nait 2 is generally considered to sound better than a NAC32 and a NAP 90 in 2 boxes in spite of the fact that a Nait 2 is the boards from a 32 and a 90 in one box.
 
When I got my 42/110 in 1983 or so (from Brady's in Liverpool) they were out of stock of the 42, so lent me an ancient bolt-down NAC12 to use for a couple weeks until the 42 came in.

I was floored by how fantastic the 12/110 sounded, and could not wait until the 'superior' 42 eventually showed up-which it did a couple weeks later.

So I took another trip to Brady's, returned the 12 and picked up the 42.

And from the very first few notes, I was enormously disappointed. The 42 sounded coarse, brash. painfully tinny and very 'mid-fi' compared to the 12. Zero goosebump factor.

I got far better sound on the 12 using a cassette deck than I ever got from the 42 using LP12/Ittok/AT32.

The 42 was so bad compared to the 12, that after getting it, I spent weeks without even listening to a single note.

Adding a SNAPS to the 42 still was not as good as the 110-powered 12.

When the first Hicaps came out (they had an optional single rail output then) I replaced the SNAPS and although it was a large improvement, I was still unconvinced that the 42/Hicap was as good as naked 12.

Many years later I got back into Naim electronics and it was not until I got a 52/135s did I get a sound that thrilled me as much as the 12/110.

I did get a 42.5/Hicap/140 to play around with in a second system. It was not until I replaced the Hicap with a Supercap, did the 42.5 sound rather good.

The 12 is a very, very special preamp and limited mainly by the number of inputs rather than sheer sonic capabilities. The 42 never sounded anything more than a mediocre entry-level preamp.
 
stevec67 said:
This may be why the Nait 2 is generally considered to sound better than a NAC32 and a NAP 90 in 2 boxes in spite of the fact that a Nait 2 is the boards from a 32 and a 90 in one box.
Click to expand...
Thinking aloud here but can’t help wonderi g if the reason why the Nait 1 and 2 are so good with records is because the phono is embedded in the main board and is not a removable board.

Apologies to the op for the thread drift.
 
rontoolsie said:
When I got my 42/110 in 1983 or so (from Brady's in Liverpool) they were out of stock of the 42, so lent me an ancient bolt-down NAC12 to use for a couple weeks until the 42 came in.

I was floored by how fantastic the 12/110 sounded, and could not wait until the 'superior' 42 eventually showed up-which it did a couple weeks later.

So I took another trip to Brady's, returned the 12 and picked up the 42.

And from the very first few notes, I was enormously disappointed. The 42 sounded coarse, brash. painfully tinny and very 'mid-fi' compared to the 12. Zero goosebump factor.

I got far better sound on the 12 using a cassette deck than I ever got from the 42 using LP12/Ittok/AT32.

The 42 was so bad compared to the 12, that after getting it, I spent weeks without even listening to a single note.

Adding a SNAPS to the 42 still was not as good as the 110-powered 12.

When the first Hicaps came out (they had an optional single rail output then) I replaced the SNAPS and although it was a large improvement, I was still unconvinced that the 42/Hicap was as good as naked 12.

Many years later I got back into Naim electronics and it was not until I got a 52/135s did I get a sound that thrilled me as much as the 12/110.

I did get a 42.5/Hicap/140 to play around with in a second system. It was not until I replaced the Hicap with a Supercap, did the 42.5 sound rather good.

The 12 is a very, very special preamp and limited mainly by the number of inputs rather than sheer sonic capabilities. The 42 never sounded anything more than a mediocre entry-level preamp.
Click to expand...
Did you ever compared the 12 to a NAC 32.5 by any chance .
 
Gervais Cote said:
Did you ever compared the 12 to a NAC 32.5 by any chance .
Click to expand...
Never did...the first Naim I ever tried out in my own system however was a 32/160 that unexpectedly a friend left me on my bed in university dorm to try out. So I plugged it in fronted by a Sonus Blue into its MM boards.
Until that point I thought that better amps were just louder and stronger, but my A60 was smoked by this classic combo. I could only bear to listen to a few tracks , because it was so seductive it was like a guilty pleasure and I knew if I got to spend too much time with it, I could listen to my A60 anymore.
 
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