gustav_errata
pfm Member
Damn, Tony beat me to it.
Ojas at the Lisson Gallery
- Thread starter Sonnyboy958
- Start date
Damn, Tony beat me to it.
paulfromcamden
Baffled
It's both. He's selling the concept and he's marketing himself. It's not a traditional box-shifting operation, it's about creating hype that will lead to collaborations, consultancy, etc. That's why we have Blue Note providing tapes - what better seal of approval could you ask for? That's why the souvenir t-shirts are £79 - to let you know that this is exclusive, aspirational stuff.
And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. At the end of the day it's a great afternoon out for anyone interested in audio and/or music, and as you say, it's exposing people to the sort of gear that I find a lot more interesting than the anonymous black boxes most hi-fi shops specialise in.
Strange to think - 15 years ago who would have thought listening to old jazz records through valve amps would become the definition of cutting edge hip!
P.S. here's a custom OJAS system installed as part of the refurbishment of a bar in Brooklyn earlier this year. I think that's his market.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with exposing people to the greatness of an idler deck/low-power valve amp/horn speaker system, but what I baulk at is the notion that this is somehow art.
Bar installations like the one above are going to reach a much wider audience than any fancy-pants art gallery event. Devon might also consider approaching small music venues to target genuine music lovers.
But in any case he is operating on the fringes of audio and the vast majority of potential hi-fi enthusiasts (or experienced ones, for that matter) will not be able to accommodate massive horn speakers or want to deal with the mechanical complexity of old Garrard or Thorens turntables.
There is a lot of really good moderately priced hi-fi gear being produced today (some of it using valves) so I don't know why in this age of instant communication more young people are not seeking it out.
Bar installations like the one above are going to reach a much wider audience than any fancy-pants art gallery event. Devon might also consider approaching small music venues to target genuine music lovers.
But in any case he is operating on the fringes of audio and the vast majority of potential hi-fi enthusiasts (or experienced ones, for that matter) will not be able to accommodate massive horn speakers or want to deal with the mechanical complexity of old Garrard or Thorens turntables.
There is a lot of really good moderately priced hi-fi gear being produced today (some of it using valves) so I don't know why in this age of instant communication more young people are not seeking it out.
Tony L
Administrator
First you need to define art in a way the rest of us agree! My preferred definition is something along the lines of ‘a visual or audible action intended to generate an emotional reaction in the viewer’. This easily encompasses everything from the Mona Lisa to Tracey Emin’s bed, John Cage’s 4.33 or the most extreme COUM/Throbbing Gristle gig. This installation meets my requirements. It is now down to you to disprove it.
paulfromcamden
Baffled
@vesuvian not really what you mean by 'genuine music lovers'. There were plenty of folk with record bags on the day I attended. And is it too much to suggest that the twenty-somethings who rocked up might even be more clued up on current music than your average middle-aged hi-fi bloke?
Not everyone has the space for giant speakers but the world is full of decent affordable vintage kit like Lenco decks and Quad amps if people want to explore.
Not everyone has the space for giant speakers but the world is full of decent affordable vintage kit like Lenco decks and Quad amps if people want to explore.
awl
pfm Member
That's a strange view to express on a hifi forum.
I enjoyed my visit to the Lisson Gallery last week, it seems to be generating a lot of interest too.
Engels
pfm Member
This is not a hifi show demo, it's in an art gallery for a reason. You take your shoes off and sit quietly and listen to music and it's free to get in. There is no hard sell for any of the products, in fact the 'merch' stall was just a small tabletop and unmanned when I went.
People will sit in silence in an art gallery and gaze at paintings of, for example, religious iconography for several minutes. This is a similar experience. It is intended to be contemplative and promote meditation. The fact that you have analogue, self-built, near monumental, vintage-style audio reproduction equipment generating the sound is of interest to us hi-fi nerds but that isn't really the point. It's an art installation.
People will sit in silence in an art gallery and gaze at paintings of, for example, religious iconography for several minutes. This is a similar experience. It is intended to be contemplative and promote meditation. The fact that you have analogue, self-built, near monumental, vintage-style audio reproduction equipment generating the sound is of interest to us hi-fi nerds but that isn't really the point. It's an art installation.
Engels
pfm Member
And just to say further it's worth reading the press release to explain the concept. I for one am grateful for this being brought to my attention on this forum as I doubt I would have known about it otherwise. Thoroughly enjoyed a trip to London to spend an hour listening there and would have stayed longer but plenty of people waiting for a seat in the room.
- https://lisson-art.s3.amazonaws.com...i_Listening_Room_Dream_No._1__London_2023.pdf
- https://lisson-art.s3.amazonaws.com...i_Listening_Room_Dream_No._1__London_2023.pdf
ff1d1l
pfm Member
Duchamp's “anything is art if the artist says it is” is true because art cannot be constrained by existing definitions and constantly reinvents itself.
dave charlton
pfm member
The visual, audio thing would have been my reason for visiting and I did fancy it early on but the rail dispute put paid to it. I did visit the Lisson a few years back, not for the art though (I was interested in the work of the building's architect Tony Fretton).
Sonnyboy958
pfm Member
Spent an hour at the Ojas exhibition this afternoon. No queue thankfully. When I arrived there was a sound collage playing from 1/4” on a student A80 but after that finished Devon asked if anyone had any requests so I asked for the new Pharoah Sanders reissue. Sounded very nice. I was sitting on the edge of the room when it was playing and after that a few people left so I managed to bag a centre seat. He played some John Coltrane, John Cale, Neil Young and Daniel Lanois.
Had a nice chat afterwards and Devon said that the system was going to be permanently installed there.
Seemed mostly a young respectful crowd.who may or may not been exposed to a valve/horn vinyl system. Don’t care about supposedly pretentious press releases. Have you read some of the hifi manufacturers hyperbole/word salad. I say more power to Devon. Who cares if it blurs the audiophile/art paradigm. I’m just glad more people are able to hear to it. (and it was quite nice not to hear ‘Brothers In Arms’)
Had a nice chat afterwards and Devon said that the system was going to be permanently installed there.
Seemed mostly a young respectful crowd.who may or may not been exposed to a valve/horn vinyl system. Don’t care about supposedly pretentious press releases. Have you read some of the hifi manufacturers hyperbole/word salad. I say more power to Devon. Who cares if it blurs the audiophile/art paradigm. I’m just glad more people are able to hear to it. (and it was quite nice not to hear ‘Brothers In Arms’)
sonddek
Trade: SUPATRAC
I visited this afternoon and it was packed with a diverse crowd of people younger than most of us. In the pamphlet Devon talks at length about vintage and DIY audio which is commendable and it was a pleasure to sit and listen in a meditative environment with appreciative people. I'm pleased that a well-known gallery has given space to an artist who is genuinely into the art of music reproduction. For a Tuesday afternoon I was really surprised by how busy it was. Well done Lisson and Devon. If they make it permanent they should call it the Listen Gallery.
That's Devon sitting on the floor at the front in the baseball cap. The music was varied and interesting. As you can see, not only was it a younger and more fashionable crowd than you would see at an audio show, but there were girls - lots of them!
That's Devon sitting on the floor at the front in the baseball cap. The music was varied and interesting. As you can see, not only was it a younger and more fashionable crowd than you would see at an audio show, but there were girls - lots of them!
Most young people have never experienced recorded music beyond streaming through their earbuds, computer speakers or bluetooth devices. They have no idea what a big proper hifi sounds like and how different the music can sound. Devon is definitely tapping into this and coming from a different consumer sector, knows how to market himself and hype what he's doing. It's part of the same phenomenon behind the rise of jazz kissatens in the West such as Brilliant Corners and Spiritland and Colleen Murphy's Classic Album Sundays listening sessions where the emphasis is on experiencing recorded music through a good high fidelity system. (Many of these guys will name-check David Mancuso and his loft parties).
It's not necessarily about the hifi components themselves (although they are indeed an essential part of the experience). It's about listening to whole albums with concentration and mindfulness. Young people are curious and interested but don't mistake that for an interest in the gear.
Conventional hifi audio companies, reviewers and old audiophiles are always harping on how uninterested young folk are in hifi. Fact is they are totally clueless in this area and only know how to sell ridiculously-priced and increasingly gaudy gear to older plutocrats.
It's not necessarily about the hifi components themselves (although they are indeed an essential part of the experience). It's about listening to whole albums with concentration and mindfulness. Young people are curious and interested but don't mistake that for an interest in the gear.
Conventional hifi audio companies, reviewers and old audiophiles are always harping on how uninterested young folk are in hifi. Fact is they are totally clueless in this area and only know how to sell ridiculously-priced and increasingly gaudy gear to older plutocrats.
I went today: Thursday @ 11:30. A few observations bubbled up while I sat there listening:
1. Rarely had to queue to listen at a hi-fi show (Absolute Sounds IIRC). In contrast, needed 30 minutes to get in and a further 20 to “migrate” into a decent listening spot.
2. I’ve never had to remove my shoes at a hi-fi dem: Perhaps a sign of reverence today?
3. Completely unlike shows, 90% were there to listen, and listen hard, which was a huge relief. As ever, there were exceptions: Two women beside me whispered incessantly in French while posting pictures of the room on their social media. Thank God they left soon after uploading.
4. As others have mentioned, packing a room full of people to listen to hi-fi/music is scarce in the extreme; the last hi-fi shows I’ve attended were pretty much deserted. Kudos to Turnbull/Lisson etc. for the right volume and slant re publicity. They are definitely doing something very right.
5. Also completely unlike shows, albums were played in their entirety, both sides. I listened to two jazz albums, which isn’t really my bag. ECMs Arvo Part: Tabula Rasa and Eno’s Ambient 2: Plateaux of Mirror were both staring at me but, alas, neither made it as far at the turntable.
6. …which was extremely sensitive to footfall – certainly kept people from leaving during the middle of a track.
7. And I’d forgotten how intrusive surface noise can be during quiet passages.
8. Yes, it sounded great but, IMHO, no better than many of the uber-systems at shows: Reminded me of the Naim Statement/Focal Utopia dem I heard a while back. Lots of scale but no greater musical insight or ultimate enjoyment than my own system (yes, I’m biased…). I had zero impulse to empty the piggy-bank.
9. Surprised it wasn’t louder, but that probably enhanced the calmative environment.
10. Nevertheless, really nice to spend an hour just chillin’, listening to music in the middle of the day.
11. The speaker cables were really thin: No way it could be proper hi-fi!
1. Rarely had to queue to listen at a hi-fi show (Absolute Sounds IIRC). In contrast, needed 30 minutes to get in and a further 20 to “migrate” into a decent listening spot.
2. I’ve never had to remove my shoes at a hi-fi dem: Perhaps a sign of reverence today?
3. Completely unlike shows, 90% were there to listen, and listen hard, which was a huge relief. As ever, there were exceptions: Two women beside me whispered incessantly in French while posting pictures of the room on their social media. Thank God they left soon after uploading.
4. As others have mentioned, packing a room full of people to listen to hi-fi/music is scarce in the extreme; the last hi-fi shows I’ve attended were pretty much deserted. Kudos to Turnbull/Lisson etc. for the right volume and slant re publicity. They are definitely doing something very right.
5. Also completely unlike shows, albums were played in their entirety, both sides. I listened to two jazz albums, which isn’t really my bag. ECMs Arvo Part: Tabula Rasa and Eno’s Ambient 2: Plateaux of Mirror were both staring at me but, alas, neither made it as far at the turntable.
6. …which was extremely sensitive to footfall – certainly kept people from leaving during the middle of a track.
7. And I’d forgotten how intrusive surface noise can be during quiet passages.
8. Yes, it sounded great but, IMHO, no better than many of the uber-systems at shows: Reminded me of the Naim Statement/Focal Utopia dem I heard a while back. Lots of scale but no greater musical insight or ultimate enjoyment than my own system (yes, I’m biased…). I had zero impulse to empty the piggy-bank.
9. Surprised it wasn’t louder, but that probably enhanced the calmative environment.
10. Nevertheless, really nice to spend an hour just chillin’, listening to music in the middle of the day.
11. The speaker cables were really thin: No way it could be proper hi-fi!
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paulfromcamden
Baffled
I've heard the Naim Statement/Focal system, and sonically the OJAS system sounds nothing like it!!! I can't remember hearing such a poor sound, when I heard the Naim Statement/Focal system at the Novotel hotel a few years back. Maybe with the exception of the Devialet/B&W system in the room next to ours in Munich in 2013. Maybe from a scale POV I can see where you are coming from, but you have to remember these types of vintage speaker were designed to fill a Cinema with sound with an audience of up to a thousand or so people, so the scale will be big, that is the point. Playing a system like this in a smaller room is more like listening near field, not forgetting the speaker was designed to "integrate" about 30-50 feet from the speaker. Note: I am mentioning the word speaker because back when this type of speaker was designed, the sound was only in mono.
When my wife and I went a day or two after the exhibition opened there was no mention of removing ones shoes. I seem to remember Devon was wearing trainers in the room...
There was a note blu-tacked to the wall stating something about "trailing cables..." etc. All shoes off and left in the room immediately before the queue room.