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Northern rail franchise to be re-nationalised

D

Deej

pfm Member
Great news. So glad I drive now and don't have to pay for overpriced, overcrowded, cold, always late and always cancelled trains. Northern are beyond terrible and so are rail services in the North.
Hope this will now start a catalogue of train operators stripped of their contracts and taken into public ownership until we eventually see a fully re-nationalised British rail industry. Privatisation and the greedy companies that run our trains have failed. Now Mr Corbyn was not wrong about this one!
 
Whilst delighted to see Arriva stripped of the franchise how will public ownership from March 1st improve staffing, updating of obsolete running stock and timetabling?
 
Northern rail are terrible for 3 major reasons, all of them applicable after they have become nationalised again.

New trains from Spain are massively late, so there is insufficient rolling stock and what there is, is in poor condition.
The largest cause of delays on the network is trespass and suicides.
The contract compels the franchisee to rehash the role of guards.

All predictions from rail commentators - no change for the foreseeable with nationalisation.

Covered in detail on R4 2 days ago. The Today programme?????
 
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Vinny said:
Northern rail are terrible for 3 major reasons, all of them applicable after they have become nationalised again.

New trains from Spain are massively late, so there is insufficient rolling stock and what there is, is in poor condition.
The largest cause of delays on the network is trespass and suicides.
The contract compels the franchisee to rehash the roll of guards.

All predictions from rail commentators - no change for the foreseeable with nationalisation.

Covered in detail on R4 2 days ago. The Today programme?????
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indeed, in fact one railway person I know, suggests the prices may actually go up
 
So much for the caricature of Tory scum always being pro-market. It does, however, open up a little intellectual problem for them in terms of criticising Labour's re-nationalisation plans during the campaign....
 
It also opens up a rather larger intellectual problem for them in terms of whether to fund HS2, or the much more pressing need for a decent rail system in the north and midlands. At present.. all we are getting is the usual Tory evasion, bullshit, waffle and 'Jam Tomorrow' rhetoric.

The case for a decent Northern 'Cross Country' route broadly mirroring the M62 ( Liverpool via Manchester and Leeds to Hull.. for those who think Civilisation ends at Watford...) ..is easily made..

Yet what we continue to hear from the Tories are platitudes about the Northern Rail issue. So they've taken Northern into 'Public Ownership'.. except they haven't. My best guess is that the same people are running the show with Schapps looking over their shoulder and telling them they'd better think of a way to transfer to a new company sharpish if they want continuing bonuses. Lots of faux concern with no real proposal to do anything worthwhile.

Meanwhile.. the case for shaving 20 seconds off the time from Birmingham to That London (You don't seriously believe it will ever reach further North do you?).. is backed up by all sorts of convoluted and unconvincing arguments which are designed to justify the continuing transfer of public funds into private hands.

Tories will be Tories.
 
Not the actions of a supposed 'ultra right wing government' though - must have surprised many of the rabid left who reside on here.
 
thebigfredc said:
Not the actions of a supposed 'ultra right wing government' though - must have surprised many of the rabid left who reside on here.
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Privatising profits and nationalising losses couldn’t be more popular right. It is the foundation upon which the trough-feeding Tory Party has been built for quite some while now. They pocket the spoils, the rest of us pay for their failures.
 
In Scotland Abellio are losing the franchise. The irony being that that by the time the changes happen, Network Rail will have completed all the major infrastructure improvements and the new rolling stock will have been delivered. The service will have have improved, and the Scottish Government will claim it is because they took over a failing franchise!

As I understand it some of Northern Rail's problems are similar. Late delivery of new rolling stock, and infrastructure improvements such as platform lengthening, which have not been delivered.

The major problems with the introduction of the new timetables was partly due to late delivery of rolling stock. The timetabling of trains is very complicated especially when different train companys run on the same tracks. The knock on effect of any problem can domino across the network.

In Scotland we had problems when the drivers found that reflections in the windows were causing concerns about correct sighting of signals. The windows had to be refitted before driver training could take place. This meant that the timetable planned over the previous 6 months could not be fully implemented until drivers had been trained.
 
cctaylor said:
In Scotland Abellio are losing the franchise. The irony being that that by the time the changes happen, Network Rail will have completed all the major infrastructure improvements and the new rolling stock will have been delivered. The service will have have improved, and the Scottish Government will claim it is because they took over a failing franchise!

In Scotland we had problems when the drivers found that reflections in the windows were causing concerns about correct sighting of signals. The windows had to be refitted before driver training could take place. This meant that the timetable planned over the previous 6 months could not be fully implemented until drivers had been trained.
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And yet where the infrastructure is brand new, ie Borders Railway, the trains are still late, regularly don't stop at all the timetabled stations, often get cancelled due to drivers being seconded to other routes, and still the additional carriages promised aren't available (they're not even the Hitachi trains, so no excuse), leading to significant overcrowding on a commuter line specifically set up for the purpose. Frankly if they can't run the Borders Railway properly then Abellio deserve to be ditched.

CHE
 
cctaylor said:
In Scotland Abellio are losing the franchise. The irony being that that by the time the changes happen, Network Rail will have completed all the major infrastructure improvements and the new rolling stock will have been delivered. The service will have have improved, and the Scottish Government will claim it is because they took over a failing franchise!

As I understand it some of Northern Rail's problems are similar. Late delivery of new rolling stock, and infrastructure improvements such as platform lengthening, which have not been delivered.

The major problems with the introduction of the new timetables was partly due to late delivery of rolling stock. The timetabling of trains is very complicated especially when different train companys run on the same tracks. The knock on effect of any problem can domino across the network.

In Scotland we had problems when the drivers found that reflections in the windows were causing concerns about correct sighting of signals. The windows had to be refitted before driver training could take place. This meant that the timetable planned over the previous 6 months could not be fully implemented until drivers had been trained.
Click to expand...
Abellio has been an unmitigated disaster. You get the impression they couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery. SG had to dump them.
 
Rodrat said:
I suspect they will invest public money to bring it up to standard and then flog it off to one of their chums for a bargain price.
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money has already been spent - infrastructure upgrades are way behind, rolling stock ordered and paid for but not delivered
 
thebigfredc said:
Not the actions of a supposed 'ultra right wing government' though - must have surprised many of the rabid left who reside on here.
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Why do you insist on calling sensible democratic socialists as the 'rabid left'?

As pointed out above it's precisely what they do with depressing regularity. They'll flog it off again as soon as they've used our money to make it a nice little earner for some supposedly private company owned by a foreign govt.
 
Looking back at other 'failed' major engineering projects, we can see a pattern:

1971 Rolls Royce went bust with RB211 engine. Nationalized and went on to be most sucessful aero engine of those times. Not sure if the PMs mates profited. Probably..

1994 - Chunnel ran 4x over budget and late. All came good.

Panama Canal lost all the initial investors their stakes, but came good.

The 'Lunatic Line' East Africa to Lake Uganda was another failiure to success, creating Kenya in process.

"Never buy a railroad until its been bankrupt at least twice" is the adage.

Great 1993 article on Govt and major civil engineering flops to successes here:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...vely-over-budget-but-as-nicholas-1420527.html
 
There's a pattern alright: things that are of national importance are saved. The Channel Tunnel and the UK's prime position in the international aero-engine market are things that are worth far more to the UK than the amounts that were spent to bail out the businesses involved.

But the Channel Tunnel didn't overrun by anything like 4x: Total overspend was less than 80% on the 1985 estimate, adjusted for inflation. Even at that 80% overrun, the Channel Tunnel cost £14 billion in 2019 money to bring into service - that sum was split 50/50 by the French and UK governments. Seems like a bargain now, considering the latest estimates for creating a pretty straightforward, and mostly overground, high-speed rail corridor..
 
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