No obligation home demos?

[Si74]

Twice now my mate has been stitched up by a local dealer with take it home and try it, then hell nor high water will get them to part with the money when he doesn't like it. Not because he's overly picky but he can hear & it doesn't live up to their ...
Having briefly heard their bullshit, were I his size, I'd simply take them by the throat and intimate their life expectancy to be very short.
How these arseholes part people from their money beggars belief.
Had they shafted me, I'd name & shame but since I'd rather flush money down the toilet than give it to any of my local con merchants, not for me to say.
One item he bought lasted six months so a refund against something else(no chance of just a refund)?,
another item from another dealer never worked from day one, months later a report from Sony saying they tested it and was fine... so much for the fifty quids worth of recommended cdr's he's had to binn?
These are not people on their uppers struggling to make a living.. they are robbing bastards using any means in their power to continue to make ridiculous margins.
The new doyens/gurus of hifi make Arthur Daley look like a saint
Shame as the dealer I used for 20 odd years is out of business, probably by virtue of being honest, makes you feckin wonder

 

[stevec67]

Consumer law is simple enough, if he doesn't like being screwed over he should go to law. No need to thump anyone, I have a friendly solicitor/trading standards officer/credit card company who can hurt them more than I ever can. However as he's been back at least twice, he must like getting shafted.

 

[Space is the Place]

Twice now my mate has been stitched up by a local dealer with take it home and try it, then hell nor high water will get them to part with the money...

Hmm, Ive had a very similar experience, it was real chore trying to get my money back after i'd taken the goods back.

I left the equipment with the dealer and they said he wanted to check it was working correctly before they refunded my money - I'd had the equipment for a whole weekend- so i took it in good faith that he would refund my my money ASAP, a week being expectable IMO, 17 days later after numerous emails all unanswered, (there is no excuse for this as at the time he was spending a considerable amount of time posting on this forum and others, so obviously he was using a computer all through that period).

I eventually got him on the phone again, i had to use my friends phone as he wouldn't answer the number i telephoned first, he eventually refunded my money to Paypal. For me that the issue took so long to resolve, and that the operation is a 'one man band' and he doesn't list a bricks and mortar address on his website, created a lot of stress as to whether i would actually see my money again, stress and anxiety i didn't need.
He still posts on here, offering home loans of equipment, maybe my experience was a one off, but i certainly would never ever use him again for anything!

See here

 

[Mr Perceptive]

My local bricks and mortar dealer just lends me stuff, usually when I want it and for a couple of weeks. He has even ordered in kit for me to to demo. I have never put up any form of pre-payment, his view is that he knows where I live!! In return I have spent quite a bit of money there.

Works for him and works for me, so everyone is happy.

 

[Crash!]

You just have to find the right shop.

I'm extremely fortunate to have a local shop run by a chap who's knowledgeable and friendly (he deserves a mention by name, but I think I'd probably be breaking a rule or three). As a result, several times I've called in for something minor and ended up spending quite reasonable amounts of money. If he was pushy or brusque in any way, I wouldn't have ever parted with a penny.

Don't give money to crap dealers - help make the good ones a profit they deserve instead.

 

[paskinn]

What I don't get is what happens to stuff that dealers loan out...or offer on sale or return? If it comes back, it presumably can't be sold as new.So the dealer takes a large hit using this method....or is stuff then sold as if it were new? Ideally dealers would keep demo stock, but they are faced with us....a bunch of hobbyists who don't really want to pay for service. These days, price is too often all that counts. Which is one reason why shop based dealers are simply dying out. So there are two sides to this slightly sad story (hobbyists try to take advantage of dealers at least as much as dealers take advantage of punters.)

 

[Space is the Place]

So there are two sides to this slightly sad story (hobbyists try to take advantage of dealers at least as much as dealers take advantage of punters.)

There aren't to side two sides to my story, sorry, if they'd have acted correctly i'd have continued to use them for future purchases as they sell many things i'm interested in, as it is they lost a customer.

Surely a hobbyist is exactly the person they want as a customer, because they'll continue to buy/upgrade down the line?

 

[Midlandaudiox]

What I don't get is what happens to stuff that dealers loan out...or offer on sale or return? If it comes back, it presumably can't be sold as new.So the dealer takes a large hit using this method....or is stuff then sold as if it were new? Ideally dealers would keep demo stock, but they are faced with us....a bunch of hobbyists who don't really want to pay for service. These days, price is too often all that counts. Which is one reason why shop based dealers are simply dying out. So there are two sides to this slightly sad story (hobbyists try to take advantage of dealers at least as much as dealers take advantage of punters.)

Good post!

but from where i stand ...
If i know a customer ie: he has some record with me purchasing hi fi i will always oblige in a loaner..
Where possible i will even install stuff in there homes for extended periods
(this is usually what happens with speakers)
But there are exceptions to the rule when i take a credit card as a precautionary measure if i dont know the guy and he is a new customer to me, i actually dont process it but it makes me feel better about loaning what could be a very expensive item.
Demo units are demos here and i always sell them off at a lower price once they have run their cause.
A new item is sealed in a box and where we have open the box to build or to check its normally done with the permission of the buyer or in most cases while they wait.
It really is a shame that some so called dealers treat their customer in this way, it certainly makes my job harder in the long run.

 

[sq225917]

Yup, there's no need for them to take a payment from your card, they can just earmark an amount against it and process it later if you keep the goods. Doing anything else is basically financing your cash flow from your demo stock which is just shit business.

 

[Sonic68]

The other side of the coin are dealers who are very genuine and happy to help.
Moorgate acoustics in Sheffield have lent me countless things over the last twenty five
or more years (some of which I have bought, a lot that I haven't) and have never once
pressured me to buy anything that I have borrowed.

 

[Markus S]

You just have to find the right shop.

I'm extremely fortunate to have a local shop run by a chap who's knowledgeable and friendly (he deserves a mention by name, but I think I'd probably be breaking a rule or three). As a result, several times I've called in for something minor and ended up spending quite reasonable amounts of money. If he was pushy or brusque in any way, I wouldn't have ever parted with a penny.

Don't give money to crap dealers - help make the good ones a profit they deserve instead.

Feel free to mention your dealer, no rule against it!

Markus - moderator

 

[zarniwoop]

I have borrowed equipment many times from Doug Brady HiFi, some of which I kept and some returned. They take CC payment at the point of the loan and refund immediately if I return it, and have never pressured me to keep anything. It's an arrangement I am comfortable with.

 

[Bluedroog]

Hyperfi in Romford are a bunch of snakes based on my personal experience many years ago. They advertised a product in the back of national magazine at a price too good to be true, I rang them to check it wasn’t an error and to see if they had stock. They confirmed it was the price and yes they did have stock. I called a couple of days later to confirm again as I was planning to come over and the price was just so good, a then called a third time to say I was coming over, I was leaving right then, I’ll be a couple of hours max and to keep one aside for me. Yep, yep, yep all is fine, see you shortly I’ve got a unit right here in front of me.

Got there and the product simply didn’t exist, just a couple of really sleazy sales people who’d say anything to get you through the door. They were no equivalent products at deals even remotely resembling that one they assured me three times existed. A complete was of a three hour round trip. Avoid at all costs.

 

[jaz9706]

I have borrowed kit from home media in Maidstone - had no issues , instant refund of credit card, they even stayed late so I could return it after work.

 

[irons1965]

Feel free to mention your dealer, no rule against it!

Markus - moderator

Fair enough...In this case a big thumbs up for my buddy Nic Forbes and the boys at Audio T (formerly Audio Excellence) in Swansea.

Been dealing with the shop for nearly 30 years, always obliging when loaning equipment etc- First class all round

 

[neil]

I've never yet had to pay anything for a home loan of a piece of kit from a local dealer and can vouch for MAX. John has loaned me at least 2 power amps, a phono stage and some speaker cables over the years and not once requested any form of payment. A great guy and excellent dealer. Others locally have been equally accommodating.

I once arranged a home loan of a Hovland Radia from Metropolis where they said there would be a £100 charge that would be refunded if I bought it. I agreed and they took my card details and shipped me the amp. Fabulous amp but unfortunately it didn't quite have the oomph for my Dynaudio Confidence 5 speakers so they arranged for it to be picked up by the shipper. They never charged me for the loan. I think it was a means of deterring tyre kickers.

So overall I think there are some really great people out there servicing the hobby. There are clearly a few bad apples from some of the posts we occasionally see here but this does seem to be the exception and thankfully I have never come across them.

 

[paskinn]

Yes, for obvious reasons it is the good dealers who thrive in the longer term; I do suspect that some of us hobbyists have got 'naughtier' with the arrival of the internet and E-bay etc. An example from this week: A dealer I know , sold goods worth many thousands of pounds to a guy who lives in another country...outside the EU. Once the deal had been agreed and the goods ordered from the manufacturers by the dealer, the guy suddenly said that he wanted an invoice which valued the goods at less than 10% of their true price. If he didn't get this, he would not pay. What was the dealer to do....he was being encouraged to commit blatent fraud. Anyway, he refused and now thinks he has lost the order, although he has to honour his order to the manufacturers. There are too many such examples. I would hate to be a dealer in this climate...but I know there are a lot of nice people out there too! (There are, aren't there?_)

 

[peter bj]

my dealer always lets me borrow items over a weekend to try , it is a excellent way to test at home as the gear does not usually sound the same at the showroom . I then return the demo unit , there is never any pressure to buy , but if I am happy a new unit is ordered . I have also loaned units where a card swipe was used but not used if returned . This type of service is very valuable to us and it is a shame if a dealer takes the p*** and it means you will not buy from them again

 

[spidertooth]

I too have had problems getting demo deposits back. In the case of one dealer it's funny how the card machine always seems to process taking the deposit flawlessly then suffers any number of problems when it comes to the return. The phrase "blood out of a stone" would seem to apply. All this and I was an existing customer!

In the most recent case I was getting tired of having to chase constantly on the phone and couldn't be bothered with all the hassles of going the legal route. So I resolved the situation by bringing forward the purchase of the demo'd piece and used the demo deposit to pay for some of it. I liked the piece but couldn't really afford it for a few months and really needed the deposit back until then.

Pretty disappointing treatment of a customer and it goes without saying never again.

 

[Sue Pertwee-Tyr]

I
In the most recent case I was getting tired of having to chase constantly on the phone and couldn't be bothered with all the hassles of going the legal route. So I resolved the situation by bringing forward the purchase of the demo'd piece and used the demo deposit to pay for some of it. I liked the piece but couldn't really afford it for a few months and really needed the deposit back until then.

I'm slightly curious why you would go to the bother of having the demo, when you knew you couldn't afford to purchase. That does, I'm sorry to say, make you sound a bit like one of those tyre-kicking time-wasters we hear about. I can certainly see why it might have looked like that to the dealer.

I'd ask myself whether the dealer might have lost out on another sale, because his demo unit was out on loan to you, and he couldn't service an enquiry from another potential customer which might have come in at the same time.