Plenty of solutions for bends, boxes, junctions .. like these. This stuff is standard in industry where cables need protection. Cavity walls, ceiling spaces and bends would not be a problem, as long as you have a competent sparks. Once upon a time much domestic wiring was in similar conduit. Nowadays of course folk surface mount cables all over the place, or bury it in plaster, and put a bit of plastic capping over the top if you're lucky.
New house wiring specification
- Thread starter James
- Start date
Plenty of solutions for bends, boxes, junctions .. like these. This stuff is standard in industry where cables need protection. Cavity walls, ceiling spaces and bends would not be a problem, as long as you have a competent sparks. Once upon a time much domestic wiring was in similar conduit. Nowadays of course folk surface mount cables all over the place, or bury it in plaster, and put a bit of plastic capping over the top if you're lucky.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
ANDY, You really couldn't get 10mm2 cable into those; I very much doubt 6mm2 would go, either. You certainly wouldn't want smaller than 6mm2 for a dedicated hifi circuit.
Not sure what you mean be 'fat' cable. There's 10mm2, 6mm2, 3.5 (I think), 2.5 and 1.5 (lighting cable). Above that you have 'tails' of 15/16mm2 and 25mm2, though I might be a little out there.
Not sure what you mean be 'fat' cable. There's 10mm2, 6mm2, 3.5 (I think), 2.5 and 1.5 (lighting cable). Above that you have 'tails' of 15/16mm2 and 25mm2, though I might be a little out there.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Mike, you'd be wasting your time to consider 2.5mm2 t & e for a hifi radial. In the eighties I did have multiple 2.5s running long distances from cellar to hifi rooms, but dedicated hifi mains was virtually unheard of then; besides, those were fuse-wire days; things have come on quite a bit since then; in safety, too !
10mm2 is favourite (and, yes; you can just about wire up a socket if that's your choice). Only logistics should reduce that cable choice to 6mm2, but no further.Pardon my ignorance here, but would the conduit have to be earthed to be effective? And if so how might it be done?
James
Lord of the Erg\o/s
Hahaha, this may be so. But old habits die hard, Markus.
On reflection over a good night's sleep, I think I'll concentrate my obsession on as clean a supply as possible from the meter and good earthing. Surely it's possible to install a single consumer unit with separate 'tails' for the hifi's 30A+ MCBs. It's a relatively short distance (10m) from where power enters the house to where the hifi will be located, so massive cables may not be necessary from a voltage drop perspective. It's not like I'm considering Krell amplification anytime soon.
Thanks, everyone, for your contributions. It's been very helpful. I can have a semi-intelligent conversation with the sparky soon.
James
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Afraid you've got a skewed idea if you equte Krell with current demand. It really doesn't matter WHAT your hifi is, or will be; put in the best, and as many circuits as you foresee a purpose. Don't spoil the ship to 'share' cables, or have one, then stick a hydra or socket board on it to accommodate your kit.
Don't forget that your sparks may not be knowledgeable about hifi. In fact he may think you're certifiable ! It's you who calls the shots (and maybe route the cable if you wish); he installs the c.u. etc, tests the circuits and signs it off. Be sure about what you want.
Pink Fish abounds with people who've put in proper dedicated circuits, and they'd never go back !.
Dinovector
pfm Member
Mike, I've been thinking of putting one in for years but I can never seem to justify it. What could I expect from a dedicated spur?
It would have to be earthed, at the very least for safety reasons, and to provide somewhere for the bad karma to go. Bond a nice thick piece of earth wire - the green and yellow stuff - to it, and take that to where everything else is earthed - usually inside your consumer unit. If I was considering doing it I'd take the conduit right back to the consumer unit anyway. Here's an article written by someone who might know what he's talking about. If you want to take RFI shielding to one kind of logical conclusion you should investigate Faraday cages ...
James
Lord of the Erg\o/s
A Krell FPB-600 would suck more juice than my feeble Densens, but I was being somewhat facetious. I don't generally compromise. You should see the effort I've gone into getting my listening room dimensioned to the best Louden Ratios.
My builder already thinks I'm certifiable. Another one or two in the trade can't hurt.
James
Mike Reed
pfm Member
You are much less likely to have clicks and pops (and bangs, occasionally0 from domestic appliances/boiler on your domestic mains.
Your supply won't be 'shared' by these domestic appliances (kettles, et al)
The RCD (or RCBO if combining) would give more individual safety in the event of some equipment failure (I've been there !).
There'll be no shortage of current requirements for your kit (on peaks, crescendos, etc.)
However, above all, the music seems more effortless, free-flowing, and ESPECIALLY, dynamic.
SPURS to not have anything to do with dedicated hifi mains, b.t.w. See my Postscript on previous page.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Good on you !
Join the club. Anything arcane like hifi requirements is treated with equal doese of mysticism and scepticism, I find. As long as they do the job well, though.......
Dinovector
pfm Member
Thanks Mike, sorry, radial circuit! Force of habit.
So it's often recommended for Naim kit that a hydra setup works well, whereas you recommend one radial per device, what would be the sensible route there? I foresee extreme resistance to a shedload of dedicated wires
The cupboard that holds the CU doesn't really have any room left in it, would it be acceptable to put a dedicated CU just above the existing but in the loft? I don't see them tripping on a regular basis
So it's often recommended for Naim kit that a hydra setup works well, whereas you recommend one radial per device, what would be the sensible route there? I foresee extreme resistance to a shedload of dedicated wires
The cupboard that holds the CU doesn't really have any room left in it, would it be acceptable to put a dedicated CU just above the existing but in the loft? I don't see them tripping on a regular basis
Mike, 10mm2 cable has dimensions of 17.1mm x 10mm (link). Galvanised steel conduit, and associated fixings, is commonly available in 20mm, 25mm and 32mm diameters. So there's no problem putting such cable in conduit, were you to want to. Read this paper on A Practical Interference Free audio system for many more strategies.
What I meant by "fat cable" is at least the minimum sized earth cable appropriate to your installation. It'll be in the regs.
Mike Reed
pfm Member
I think the hydra thing is to be compatible with star earthing (which Naim has), though I've never gone that route.
I had all Naim amplification before, but now it's a mix of Naim and valves. Re. your crowded cupboard, I suppose it is an option to put it in the loft (assuming easy access), but an awkward one.
Possibly, if your hifi is fairly close, you could run a 25 mm2 tail from the meter (via junction block) to a c.u. near your hifi. You then have a choice of hard-wiring the mains leads to each RCBO section of the c.u. (as has been done by a member of this parish) or simply run short cables out of the c.u. to whatever terminations you require At least that won't compromise space in the cupboard (too much) and gives you nice easy access to the c.u.
Might be frowned upon by other domestic considerations. though !
Dinovector
pfm Member
Didn't think of that, it's certainly an option. The length of cable from the existing CUs to the hifi would be about 7m, definitely worth considering.Possibly, if your hifi is fairly close, you could run a 25 mm2 tail from the meter (via junction block) to a c.u. near your hifi. You then have a choice of hard-wiring the mains leads to each RCBO section of the c.u. (as has been done by a member of this parish) or simply run short cables out of the c.u. to whatever terminations you require At least that won't compromise space in the cupboard (too much) and gives you nice easy access to the c.u.
Might be frowned upon by other domestic considerations. though !
Thanks!
Mike42
Heard it all before...
By law you would have to earth it. Preferably via the earth bus-bar in the Consumer Unit.
Mike42
Heard it all before...
Mike, you'd be wasting your time to consider 2.5mm2 t & e for a hifi radial. In the eighties I did have multiple 2.5s running long distances from cellar to hifi rooms, but dedicated hifi mains was virtually unheard of then; besides, those were fuse-wire days; things have come on quite a bit since then; in safety, too !
You are losing me on the 10.0MM cable suggestion. Large cable reduces voltage drop by lowering the impedance. You will achieve this with 4.0MM cable on a short (10M) run.
It does not improve current delivery, which his limited to 32amps by the MCB. Your hifi wouldnt get close to demanding that anyway.
mikebirtill
pfm Member
Ive resisted the urge to wade in. Being a sparky who does audio, pa, custom install etc. Ive found that a bigger cable does sound better with Naim amps. Instead of using glav conduit why not use SWA cable?
Last one installed for a naim owner I did in 6mm2 t&e to each Mk socket which worked very well.
As for putting the additional consumer unit in the loft thats a no no now - it needs to be readily accessible and no more that 1.2m from the floor
Last one installed for a naim owner I did in 6mm2 t&e to each Mk socket which worked very well.
As for putting the additional consumer unit in the loft thats a no no now - it needs to be readily accessible and no more that 1.2m from the floor
Mike42
Heard it all before...
The earth conductor is smaller in T/E. Thats fine. Rate the cable by the line conductor (live) and the earth conductor will be correct.