Darth Vader
From the Dark Side
Unless on a tight budget you could investigate the cost/performance of a boiler with weather compensation and stainless steel heat exchanger.
DV
DV
New gas combi boiler quote
- Thread starter Ponty
- Start date
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Don't know what this is, Lewis and I thought all boilers now had s/steel exchangers. Can you clarify?
Worcester Bosch boilers have aluminium heat exchangers Mike, Valliant has SS heat exchangers and some Vokera boilers now have SS heat exchangers and some are aluminium.
To be completely honest it doesn't really matter what the heat exchanger is made of with long warranties now although SS is a wee bit more efficient apparently.
Weather compensating is just a way of making the boiler more efficient but if you live in the south of England it's pretty marginal in terms of saving on fuel, think with weather compensation controls aka smart thermostats and smart TRVs you can lift the efficiency of the boiler to about 95% from about 91% but you'll pay a lot for those controls in some cases they're about 25% of the cost of the boiler and they're more about comfort than fuel saving.
Tony
This is from Vokera's website
Energy-related Products (ErP) and how it affects you.
Since September 2015 ErP legislation has been compulsory and requires all plumbing and heating appliances, including boilers, water heaters and renewable products, to have an energy label present.
Controls increase the energy efficiency of a heating system which is represented by an ‘uplift’ in the overall efficiency of the system. The uplift can range from 1% – 5% depending on how efficient the control is, with intelligent controls such as Vokèra’s outside weather compensation control and BeSMART, having a larger uplift than other non-intelligent controls.
When an appliance is fitted, the installer will be responsible for affixing the label and working out the system efficiency for you. However, the legislation allows you, the homeowner, to easily compare the energy efficiency of products in your home, allowing you to reduce energy consumption.
Vokera's outside sensor adds 2% to system efficiency and up to 4% with their BeSmart controller together those cost about £200 and the Worcester Bosch easy controller is nearly £300 if you need everything ie stand and wireless key etc.
I have Vokera's outside sensor and BeSmart controller along with a Vision Plus Combi don't know if I'd recommend that set up for a customer though as it's a bit overly complex.
https://www.vokera.co.uk/homeowners/controls/outside-weather-compensation-sensor/
Choosing the Right Control
Energy-related Products (ErP) and how it affects you.
Differing types of controls are classified according to the ‘uplift’ in efficiency it brings to the package. There are eight classes of control system, each adds an efficiency percentage to the boiler seasonal space heating ErP efficiency rating. That is how the package efficiency is calculated. Additional heaters such as a second boiler, heat pump or solar input will also adjust the package efficiency:
Class I: Room Thermostat: A room thermostat that controls the on/off operation of a heater. Performance parameters, including switching differential and room temperature control accuracy are determined by the thermostat’s mechanical.
Class II: Weather compensator control, for use with modulating heaters: A heater flow temperature control that varies the set point of the flow temperature of water leaving the heater dependent upon the prevailing outside temperature and selected weather compensation curve. Control is achieved by modulating the output of the heater.
Class III: Weather compensator control, for use with on/off output heaters: A heater flow temperature control that varies the set point of the flow temperature of water leaving the heater dependent upon the prevailing outside temperature and selected weather compensation curve. Heater flow temperature is varied by controlling the on/off operation of the heater.
Class IV: TPI room thermostat, for use with on/off output heaters: An electronic room thermostat that controls both thermostat cycle rate and in-cycle on/off ratio of the heater proportional to room temperature. TPI control strategy reduces mean water temperature, improves room temperature control accuracy and enhances system efficiency.
Class V: Modulating room thermostat, for use with modulating heaters: An electronic room thermostat that varies the flow temperature of the water leaving the heater dependent upon measured room temperature deviation from room thermostat set point. Control is achieved by modulating the output of the heater.
Class VI: Weather compensator and room sensor, for use with modulating heaters: A heater flow temperature control that varies the flow temperature of water leaving the heater dependent upon prevailing outside temperature and selected weather compensation curve. A room temperature sensor monitors room temperature and adjusts the compensation curve parallel displacement to improve room comfort. Control is achieved by modulating the output of the heater.
Class VII: Weather compensator and room sensor, for use with on/off output heaters: A heater flow temperature control that varies the flow temperature of water leaving the heater dependent upon the prevailing outside temperature and adjusts the compensation curve parallel displacement to improve room comfort. Heater flow temperature is varied by controlling the on/off operation of the heater.
Class VIII: Multi-sensor room temperature control, for use with modulating heaters: An electronic control, equipped with 3 or more room sensors that varies the flow temperature of the water leaving the heater dependent upon the aggregated measured room temperature deviation from room sensor set points. Control is achieved by modulating the output of the heater.
The evolve C range plus Class VI controls (Vokèra BeSMART with weather compensation activated) achieves an ErP A+ (98%) space heating package rating.
https://www.vokera.co.uk/trade-professionals/controls/
Energy-related Products (ErP) and how it affects you.
Differing types of controls are classified according to the ‘uplift’ in efficiency it brings to the package. There are eight classes of control system, each adds an efficiency percentage to the boiler seasonal space heating ErP efficiency rating. That is how the package efficiency is calculated. Additional heaters such as a second boiler, heat pump or solar input will also adjust the package efficiency:
Class I: Room Thermostat: A room thermostat that controls the on/off operation of a heater. Performance parameters, including switching differential and room temperature control accuracy are determined by the thermostat’s mechanical.
Class II: Weather compensator control, for use with modulating heaters: A heater flow temperature control that varies the set point of the flow temperature of water leaving the heater dependent upon the prevailing outside temperature and selected weather compensation curve. Control is achieved by modulating the output of the heater.
Class III: Weather compensator control, for use with on/off output heaters: A heater flow temperature control that varies the set point of the flow temperature of water leaving the heater dependent upon the prevailing outside temperature and selected weather compensation curve. Heater flow temperature is varied by controlling the on/off operation of the heater.
Class IV: TPI room thermostat, for use with on/off output heaters: An electronic room thermostat that controls both thermostat cycle rate and in-cycle on/off ratio of the heater proportional to room temperature. TPI control strategy reduces mean water temperature, improves room temperature control accuracy and enhances system efficiency.
Class V: Modulating room thermostat, for use with modulating heaters: An electronic room thermostat that varies the flow temperature of the water leaving the heater dependent upon measured room temperature deviation from room thermostat set point. Control is achieved by modulating the output of the heater.
Class VI: Weather compensator and room sensor, for use with modulating heaters: A heater flow temperature control that varies the flow temperature of water leaving the heater dependent upon prevailing outside temperature and selected weather compensation curve. A room temperature sensor monitors room temperature and adjusts the compensation curve parallel displacement to improve room comfort. Control is achieved by modulating the output of the heater.
Class VII: Weather compensator and room sensor, for use with on/off output heaters: A heater flow temperature control that varies the flow temperature of water leaving the heater dependent upon the prevailing outside temperature and adjusts the compensation curve parallel displacement to improve room comfort. Heater flow temperature is varied by controlling the on/off operation of the heater.
Class VIII: Multi-sensor room temperature control, for use with modulating heaters: An electronic control, equipped with 3 or more room sensors that varies the flow temperature of the water leaving the heater dependent upon the aggregated measured room temperature deviation from room sensor set points. Control is achieved by modulating the output of the heater.
The evolve C range plus Class VI controls (Vokèra BeSMART with weather compensation activated) achieves an ErP A+ (98%) space heating package rating.
https://www.vokera.co.uk/trade-professionals/controls/
Mike Reed
pfm Member
Haven't chosen one yet, but will prob. go with plumber's recommendations, again, prob. Vaillant. Aim to change from current Neataheat in the autumn. If not, divorce will probably precede it. Damned 35 y.o. (?) Potterton has been working fine since failing late January. Still no real idea why it did, as a simple knock to the ignition box seemed to do the trick. Still haven't put it back together fully yet !
twotone. Thanks for the info, Tony. Hot off the press as usual.
Haven't chosen one yet, but will prob. go with plumber's recommendations, again, prob. Vaillant. Aim to change from current Neataheat in the autumn. If not, divorce will probably precede it. Damned 35 y.o. (?) Potterton has been working fine since failing late January. Still no real idea why it did, as a simple knock to the ignition box seemed to do the trick. Still haven't put it back together fully yet !
twotone. Thanks for the info, Tony. Hot off the press as usual.
Ahh yes, the Netaheat, I remember now. Nothing wrong with a Vaillant. I’d go with your installer’s recommendation if I were you. If a customer of mine started quoting posts from an Internet forum I’d be looking for the exit
Just for a boiler??
You have to fit them if you have a pressure reducing valve installed on the mains most new houses have those fitted.
Dave H.
Revolutionary relativist
Resurrecting an older thread just in case anyone feels they can comment in the imminent future.
Need a new boiler quickly (old one increasingly leaking) and got a couple of quotes from local installers.
One is c. £2300 for a Worcester Bosch 4000, the other is c. £3000 for a Vaillant Ecotec Plus 832.
Given the prices of the boilers on their own, the WB quote seems like a pretty good deal. And the installer has a good rating on Checkatrade, at least. There’s just a lingering doubt at the back of my mind that it’s a little too good, and there’s something to be said for reassuringly expensive.
Am I being a clueless fool who should just shut up and take the good deal on the WB? Or am I being a clueless fool to not go straight for the Vaillant, because it’s worth it?
Need a new boiler quickly (old one increasingly leaking) and got a couple of quotes from local installers.
One is c. £2300 for a Worcester Bosch 4000, the other is c. £3000 for a Vaillant Ecotec Plus 832.
Given the prices of the boilers on their own, the WB quote seems like a pretty good deal. And the installer has a good rating on Checkatrade, at least. There’s just a lingering doubt at the back of my mind that it’s a little too good, and there’s something to be said for reassuringly expensive.
Am I being a clueless fool who should just shut up and take the good deal on the WB? Or am I being a clueless fool to not go straight for the Vaillant, because it’s worth it?
WB for me. I had a new boiler 2 years ago, £2.5k for a combi, 4 bed house.
Dave H.
Revolutionary relativist
Thanks, your response along with a couple of others elsewhere has led me to accept the quote to become a clueless fool with a WB boiler.
Fingers crossed the chap can fit it sooner rather than later!
dan m
pfm Member
We have had no issues with our Vitodens 200 since it went in around 2015.
Dave H.
Revolutionary relativist
Thanks, I’ve actually moved, though not that far so I imagine he’d still cover the area. But it’s all good, quote accepted from an installer based in Water Orton who’ll be fitting the new boiler next week.
Given that the old one has now packed up entirely, I’m just looking forward to having something that works, regardless of brand!