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NAP250 - The Mojo Mod

Mr Tibbs

Infinitely Baffled Member
People talk about the unregulated Naim amps having a certain 'something' that the regulated amps seem to lack. Most notable are the 110 and 160 in this regard - both possessing a similar style that is difficult to describe but (when you hear it) equally difficult to do without. Let's call it Mojo.

For too long now my olive 250 has been boxed up doing nothing in favour of a 110, and even though the 250 has better bass control than the little amp, the 110 kills it in the all important midrange. Given the two amps use the same output boards, I figured this really has to be down to some weakness in the 250s regulator boards, and in particular, the interface between the regulators and amp boards. There is just 10uF of capacitance per rail at the O/P of each regulator, so there must be considerable noise on the power rails - something that would likely be audible in terms of loss of low level information.

I decided to try adding some extra capacitance, fitted at the amp boards, and with the emphasis on using only the minimum of extra capacitance to get the required result. A bit of searching revealed this has been tried before and was not entirely positive but having experimented with various values I feel they may simply have used more capacitance than was optimal.

The optimal value seems to depend on the load the amp sees. An easy load like ES14s requires as little as 47uF per rail to hit the 'sweet spot' to my ears. In fact anything up to 100uF is very good with the 14s and is probably a value that would work well with about 90% of speakers out there. The Gale 401s are a heavy load compared to most and the sweet spot for them appears to be 220uF so that's what I've settled on for my 250. The difference this has made is that the 110 is now relegated to workshop duties.

'nuff said :)

15627299991_d6e43d1679_z.jpg


Mr Tibbs
 
Very interesting Mr Tibbs, I use a chrome bumper 250 myself and wouldn't mind trying your mod.

One question, how exactly did you connect up the positive side of your caps? Did you use the other side of an existing terminal hole or drill a new one? I have earlier non cad circuit boards.

Also I use Isobariks, do you think I should go for 220uf too?

mat
 
Connection arrangements;

No drilling required. I soldered the cap's (via short link wires) directly to the underside of the push fit terminal pins (a 40W iron is needed for this). On the underside of the PCB the negative side of each of the two cap's should face to the left hand side. Be sure to solder the middle connections to the 0V pin and not the speaker output terminal!

Does this make sense? I can draw a little diagram if anyone needs more info. I used good quality Vishay cap's rated at 105C - will provide the RS part numbers later.

Briks would likely benefit from 220uF. Basically any speaker that can trip the thermal cutout would be a candidate for 220uF. An interesting side effect of the added cap's is that my 250 has been running noticeably cooler since. Most likely explanation here is that stability has been improved and if so, is worth doing for that alone.

Mr Tibbs
 
Thanks for the extra info - so I assume it's negative side of the 2 caps facing to the left as looking at your photo (with heatsink at back and board upside down)?

mat
 
Yes, capacitor negative terminals to the left.

PCB terminals when viewed from underside;

X (-Ve 40V rail)---------------X (0V) ---------------- X (+Ve 40V rail)


RS part No's;

63V / 220uF ---- 2189830

63V / 100uF ---- 2189824

63V / 47uF ---- 2189818

Mr Tibbs
 
I should add you don't need to use the same make of cap's I did but do use a known good brand, rated 63V / 105C for long life. No need for very low ESR - in fact probably best avoided. Axial cap's could be soldered directly to the pins without the need for the little link wires but Axial's are relatively thin on the ground and tend to be more expensive.

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at the change this can make. It's very similar to the result I got by fitting Avondale's new TPR4 in the HiCap. Well, maybe not quite as dramatic but a good step in that direction nonetheless. The mod should work equally well in 135s.

Mr Tibbs
 
There are some obvious defects in the 250/135 regulator design that may be to blame for what you are seeing.

Referring to http://www.neilmcbride.co.uk/output-reg2.pdf in what follows.

The regulator is a feedback design, and uses a long tailed pair (LTP) (Q103/Q104 on positive side), followed by a Voltage Amplifying Stage (VAS) Q105, and a darlington to deliver. the current. The circuit is feedback stabilised by C104 and R111. This means the regulation drops with frequency; at a high enough frequency the PSRR drops to zero - what comes in goes out.

If the LTP was the other way up, with R110 fed from the raw +ve rail (perhaps via an auxilliary zener), and the VAS was earth referenced, rather than referenced to the raw rail, good stuff happens. At high frequencies, where the feedback falls, the output no longer wants to sit a constant voltage away from the noisy input, but wants to sit relative to the earth.

Doing this would need may be two extra components, but radically improve the HF noise from the regulator - and it is in the HF that the Naim amp circuit has poor PSRR. Just when the amp needs some decent performance from the regulator, Naim shot the design in the foot.
 
There are some obvious defects in the 250/135 regulator design that may be to blame for what you are seeing.

The regulator is a feedback design, and uses a long tailed pair (LTP) (Q103/Q104 on positive side), followed by a Voltage Amplifying Stage (VAS) Q105, and a darlington to deliver. the current. The circuit is feedback stabilised by C104 and R111. This means the regulation drops with frequency; at a high enough frequency the PSRR drops to zero - what comes in goes out.

Agreed PD. In effect the regulator looks almost to have been designed to be effective at low frequencies only, and there may even be an argument for this design approach. The problem is (as far as my ears can tell) the regulator is actually making matters worse in the midrange than if no regulator is used. The added capacitance seems to correct the midrange problem effectively as the amp is clearly resolving more midrange information post mod, but with no downside elsewhere that I can hear. It now sounds like a good NAP110 but with better bass definition and a useful amount of extra headroom - something that will appeal to many here I imagine.

Mr Tibbs
 
minio said:
I wonder if the Avondale modded NAP 250 has the extra caps?
No, but they do add caps at the front end and resistor / diode on the rails. Bear in mind Les@Avondale prefers a different approach to power supply in power amps and some may agree.

Neiljadman has done similar before to a Nait 3:
http://s26.photobucket.com/user/neiljadman/media/NAIT3-1.jpg.html

and a braver Martin to a Nait 2:
http://www.acoustica.org.uk/t/nait/nait_closeup.html

main page here:
http://www.acoustica.org.uk/t/nait/nait2.html

(but I will quote for ease)

http://www.acoustica.org.uk/t/nait/nait2.html said:
Power amp[section] The big 'win' here is to add power supply capacitance connected directy between the power transistor and the main PSU 0v star point. This is recommended even if the main PSU caps have been recently replaced, and makes an utterly unsubtle improvement in the Nait's ability to drive speakers with authority , and to its 'rounder' attributes - soundstage, colour and transparency (ok, we lied, we do know what 'tonal colour' is...). Do it, do it now: we used 8no. 470uf/50v low-ESR types in 4 pairs. The experimental layout is pictured here. The new caps connect to those transistor legs at rail voltage. Verify the pins and check polarity very carefully before committing to solder! Use parts rated for a minimum of 50v.

Note that there is no interaction between pairs of caps sharing a return to the main 0v star point - this is a ClassB amp, so only one half of the output stage conducts (and needs decoupling) at a time under load. The links should be fairly heavy wire - I used 1mm solid copper.

Martin makes it clear why the Naits benefit, having small unregulated PSUs rather than potentially compromised regulators (I'm staying pc PD :D). (and I wonder how the reg degrades when the caps and resistors go)

Tibbs, I wonder (I think I have seen in fact somewhere) axials taken directly back to the PSU. More stary. Means only one solder blob on the main board as well, less for bodgers to struggle with.

Saw these
http://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/elna_nos.html

The only thing to maybe take a little care with is that it may get a little warm under there. You could push the boat out and spend almost a tenner on trying these.

http://uk.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...=sGAEpiMZZMtZ1n0r9vR22XOngXtYZzMfYEIIeBskafo=
 
I link the caps 0V and run a thick wire to the speaker 0V terminals where Naim decided it was a good place to common all the 0V lines.

I wonder how good a 250 would sound if you turned round the smoothers so the terminals are right next to the rectifiers and took all the 0V lines back to the smoothers 0V like most other amps do? Mr Tibbs are you up for it?

Pete
 
In my view the best way to get the best of both worlds is a filtered front end. You get the refinement of the 250's regs, but with the raw PSU behind the output. Given that it's in the original RCA circuit I don't know why it was removed.
 
I link the caps 0V and run a thick wire to the speaker 0V terminals where Naim decided it was a good place to common all the 0V lines.

I wonder how good a 250 would sound if you turned round the smoothers so the terminals are right next to the rectifiers and took all the 0V lines back to the smoothers 0V like most other amps do? Mr Tibbs are you up for it?

Pete

I fit a solid copper bar between the caps when servicing.

Re: the mod - If I may suggest that the 0V between the two caps is taken back to the 0V of the main caps as the currents may disrupt the operation of the zobel network if connected at the PCB.
 
Thanks for the input from all so far and I would not argue with any points raised. The brief for this mod was simple - improve the 250s midrange enough that I would not miss having the 110 in situ, and achieve it with the absolute minimum of intervention / modification. So far so good ...

Mr Tibbs
 
Wrt PD's comments on poor HF PSRR. What about adding a diode/cap decoupled supply from Vin for R109/Q105 collector as a mod?
 
Can I ask why upping the value of the output capacitor on the regulator board from 10uF wouldn't work? (forgive the novice question)

And should I take a cable from the 0V of the two new caps to the speaker output bar (wired as per standard Naim) or the main reservoir caps as Les suggests?

mat
 
Can I ask why upping the value of the output capacitor on the regulator board from 10uF wouldn't work? (forgive the novice question)

And should I take a cable from the 0V of the two new caps to the speaker output bar (wired as per standard Naim) or the main reservoir caps as Les suggests?

mat

If you up the value of the caps, you'll find that on power up, the reg's current
trips are operated and the amp stays dead in the water. I assume that adding
the caps to the NAPA boards, takes into account the small amount of resistance
in the cabling to buffer the inrush current to the caps.
 
If you up the value of the caps, you'll find that on power up, the reg's current
trips are operated and the amp stays dead in the water. I assume that adding
the caps to the NAPA boards, takes into account the small amount of resistance
in the cabling to buffer the inrush current to the caps.

Thanks for the explanation.

On a related note, are your HCR200 Regulator Modules available yet? I'd be very interested in trying them.

mat
 
I ordered some Nichicon radials which I received, but decided to go for axials for less soldering on board- I found some Nichicon 220uF 100v VX series on Mouser, which hopefully should turn up in next few days.

I will try taking the new caps 0V back to the link bar on the reservoir caps (which I will have to add).

mat
 
Thinking about this, and wanting to do something which is reversible, I will try connecting a separate cable from each of the new paired caps 0V points, soldering the other ends to crimp connectors and bolting one to the reservoir cap's common + and one to the other's common -ve. I will try this without a bus bar so I'm only hearing the one mod.

mat
 


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