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Naim to valve/Yamaha NS1000m – help needed

davidismynaim

davidismynaim

pfm Member
I have made the decision it is time to move on.

I have had a pair of Yamaha NS1000M refurbished, now looking resplendent in lovely oak veneer.

I am thinking about going to valve amplification. I have only ever owned SS, so am a complete novice with valves, so would welcome some help.

There are two amps I have my eye on and would really value some thoughts on these two units or any other you think I should consider second hand in the £1000-£1200 region.

My front-end is Michell Gyrodec (have not worked out phono stage, but would probably go with a simple unit like Cambridge Audio 540P and a passive preamp (until John Westlake has his MPAX available) and SB Touch/Audiolab MDAC for all my digital music.

Thoughts on Audio Innovation 1000 mkIII Monoblocks (they use EL34 but there is talk of using Sovtek 5881/6L6GC WXT for better reliability?)

And views on Audion 300b Silver Night monoblocks with gold grids - I think these are in push pull mode.

Thanks in advance…
 
I made a similar move away from Naim about 12 months ago to a Leben CS-600.

Nothing pipe and slippers about this amp with the KT-120s that are currently in it.

Transparency, power, delicacy and an easy naturalness that is nothing like I've ever heard from Naim.

[52,super, 250, SBls]
 
Make yure you try the amp on your Yams before buying. The NS1000 really wants some clean ss power in my (limited) experience.
 
Markus S said:
Make yure you try the amp on your Yams before buying. The NS1000 really wants some clean ss power in my (limited) experience.
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I might be able to try the AI 1000's. I thought valve amps were highly recommended with the NS1000M? the 300b I think are about 30W and the AI 50W from memory
 
Markus S said:
By whom? There's a number of NS1000 users on pfm, I think they all use transistor power amps.

QUOTE]

I do have a rare DBX bx3, which if run in differential mode is capable of 300W!!! or 4 channel of 150W, maybe I should stick with its raw power eh? I have also very seriously considered a pair of Michell Alectos, but I think I have missed out on them. Decisions decisions!
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Markus S said:
By whom? There's a number of NS1000 users on pfm, I think they all use transistor power amps.



Audion claims 24 W, but that seems a bit optimistic. I'd expect 15 W or thereabouts at reasonable distortion levels.
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Including me!

I use Harman Kardon HK980 > M-DAC > NS1000M speakers .

Been in my system for over three years and drives the Yamaha's very nicely and much better than my previous Yamaha AV amp (in stereo mode).

My Amp budget was £2,000 at the time and I considered the likes of Cyrus, Roksan, Yamaha, NAD, Creek, Marantz etc. but settled on the HK (RRP £399 but available for less) as it met or exceeded my minimum requirements.

I also preferred the overall look/design e.g nearly knobless and mainly steel construction rather the more costly and unnecessary 'cast metal' cases of the Cyrus and Roksan.

Nothing wrong with the other amps but for example the Roksan Caspian M2 Amplifier has a similar specification the the HK and sells for approx. £1,600 against the HK980 at less than £400.

The £1,200 difference is mostly down to the 'cast metal' case so, as they say, you get what you pay for.

Also worth checking out the HK990 Amp at around £1,000 if you need more power.

All IMO.
 
I use a Glasshouse 300b SET amp with my NS1000m's, and absolutely love them. It's the only amp I've used with my yammies, so can't offer any other advise apart from try before you buy if you can, the Yams are very revealing. I think they would appreciate quality over quantity.
 
I use a Muse Model 200 Class A/B 200 watt transistor amp with mine. Ynwan has a pair now and they do sound excellent via his 135s. if you are going to use valves then make sure they have the grip in the bass, that big cone takes some stopping and starting to give of its best.

Any pics?
 
The NS1000M are not only beautifully revealing, but without any peculiar vices that make them hard to amplification-match. They're not hard to drive, so don't need monster power amplification. But they do respond to plenty of LF grip.

In our dem room at the moment, we have a set we're 'activating' with a variety of amplifiers (including a trio of effectual and not expensive Lab Gruppen S/S PA amps). Liberated from their crossovers, they come alive in a serious way. I'd really recommend looking into running them active with either a multichannel DAC or a Behringer and a whichever amps you fancy: Tripath for treble, valve for mids and muscular S/S for bass is even possible and works spectacularly.
 
The trouble with the crossover is that it will be utterly shagged by now. My PIO bipolar caps, the big silver ones measured several ohms in resistance, they should have been milliohms.

Basically if you are listening to the original XO on a pair of Yammies, chances are you have no idea how they should sound. You may as well throw a handful of random resistors in there.


The 509's would be decent, but then again I sold mine because they lacked real grip in the bass with my Focals compared to my Tag 125m's
 
Be careful.' Valve world' is a strange and complex place. The single greatest mistake is the repeated claim that low-powered valve amps can drive moderate efficiency speakers.....they can, in the same way that an 600c engine 'could' drive a large car. To get the best from a valve amp it needs a fairly easy load and an easy life. Yamahas are sensitive but I think they have impedance challenges (a bit like Tannoy) which makes valves problematic.Not imposible, but problematic.
Personally, and this sort of thing is very personal, I would not bother with a high powered valve amp. Been there, done that. They are no better than a good ss amp, and far less reliable. As for a low powered 300b amp. Been there, done that, too. Can be excellent, but not if the valves are pushed too hard. A 300b working in class A can manage about 6 watts. Use them in push pull, doubled-up, and you get about 20 watts. So many manufacturers claim unlikely outputs.
As I said, 'valve world' is tricky and complex. And then we get on to the subject of buying second-hand. The golden rule must be, try before you buy. If you fancy valves, go for it (I've used them for 20 years now). But be aware that it is a minefield. Find a good dealer, try the chosen amps with the Yamahas (caution, many valve amps are surprisingly bright) . Be prepared to pay a bit extra for the safety of a good dealer. Dabbling with valves can be a very costly business. Good hunting.
 
davidismynaim said:
I have made the decision it is time to move on.

I have had a pair of Yamaha NS1000M refurbished, now looking resplendent in lovely oak veneer.

I am thinking about going to valve amplification. I have only ever owned SS, so am a complete novice with valves, so would welcome some help.

There are two amps I have my eye on and would really value some thoughts on these two units or any other you think I should consider second hand in the £1000-£1200 region.

My front-end is Michell Gyrodec (have not worked out phono stage, but would probably go with a simple unit like Cambridge Audio 540P and a passive preamp (until John Westlake has his MPAX available) and SB Touch/Audiolab MDAC for all my digital music.

Thoughts on Audio Innovation 1000 mkIII Monoblocks (they use EL34 but there is talk of using Sovtek 5881/6L6GC WXT for better reliability?)

And views on Audion 300b Silver Night monoblocks with gold grids - I think these are in push pull mode.

Thanks in advance…
Click to expand...

Beware of the AI reliability

If you can't afford a Leben why not look for the Chinese Line Magnetic if you can find a distributor
 
davidismynaim said:
I am thinking about going to valve amplification. I have only ever owned SS, so am a complete novice with valves, so would welcome some help.
Click to expand...

After a fair amount of trial and error with SS and valve amps, I now use a Sheng Ya 10CS hybrid which is easily the best so far wth the Yams which do need to be gripped in the bass. Rated at 180W a side it has everything; delicacy in the top, fullness in the mid and deep tight, tight bass. Had a Sugden A21a in system recently and it did not have the life and the control that the Sheng Ya injects into the speakers.

The same people make the Vincent (identical) version which sells in Germany at 3 times the price and has been a firm top level recommendation in Stereophile for a number of years. Timaudio sell it for about £500. Had it 3 years, changed the valves and it puts a smile on my face everyday. I think it is one of the best bargains in hi-fi amps. Pity you are so far away from Glasgow.

The Vincent version SV236 (which I have looked at closely and looks the same as mine) has won a few accolades

Named as the greatest value at CES by The Absolute Sound Editor-in-Chief Robert Harley

Listed in The Absolute Sound 2012 High-End Audio Buyer's Guide
"Editors' Choice" Award, The Absolute Sound, 2008
"Editors' Choice" Award, The Absolute Sound, 2007
"Editors' Choice" Award, The Absolute Sound, 2006

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=VISV236MK BLK


PS use open frame stands and change caps in X-over if this has not been done recently. Also the amp benefits from valve replacement.
 
Hi Guys:

My own experience with original & unmodified NS1000’s is that they are a dead easy load to drive.

The internet and HiFi press are full of stories about the Yamies being hard to drive and that they require good heavy solid state amplification. The truth is very different. The NS1000 impedance curve is smooth with no wild swings and it doesn’t go below 6 ohms, this along with a 90db efficiency means you get a good volume for very little volts. The owner’s manual suggests amplifiers of 50 watts is sufficient and warns against going beyond 100 watts.

I ended up using my NS1000’s with a pair of QUAD II “classics”, 15 watts of KT66 goodness and that’s all it takes. The NS1000’s sound smooth yet detailed and the bass is well controlled but strong and dynamic, just like the Yamies should sound.

The only thing I found important when setting up my Yamies was the speaker stand. They need a solid open framed stand that can rigidly support the NS1000’s 40Kg mass without flexing or wobbling and get the tweeter at about ear height from your preferred listening position.

Oh and the NS1000’s also work a treat if you have to back them up against a wall. Some have criticized the NS1000’s for having little bass below 50Hz and that’s understandable for a 300mm bass driver in a 50 litre sealed box, a little bit of boundary loading from the rear wall will help to bolster the absolute bottom octave and because the Yamies are physically deep, the front driver plane is far enough away from the rear wall to give you a decent sound stage as well.

So there you go, choose a valve amp if you want, then sit back and enjoy.... I feal 15-20 watts with an 8 ohm tap should be plenty enough to make the yamies sing.

LPSpinner.
 
There's lots of good advice out there regarding them but there is no substitute for testing them with a multiplicity of amps. One mans full bass is another mans underdamped and overhung.
 
My son has a pair of Yamaha NS1000 and he use an EAR 834l pre/Classe DR2 25W class A power amp. There have been no problems driving them. He prefered the Classe to a Krell KSA 150. Krell had better bass but the Classe was much more open in the midrange.
 
I have Tannoys, which "everyone" said were well suited to valve amplification (I had Naim). Like you I was a complete novice re valves. I spent some thousands, had a great time ... unreliability, warm up times, and too much heat in summer, and now have a much better sound back with a good (non-Naim) SS amp.

Nic P
 
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