MVV
pfm Member
Become? The whole idea is a nonsense.This has become a comedy thread
Naim power line ????
- Thread starter john howard
- Start date
Chocking !
Any Naim bashing and criticism you might be haunted day and night.
Scandalous.
I mean, that is a very usual thing and even more so in the non-Naim world. Really strong interconnects are all 2k+ and it is important to have one between the source and amp. Dacs are especially sensitive to the cable thing as they are a hub really for power, digital and interconnect - proper set will cost more than a dac and it’s okay.. Naim is actually doing a good thing because it doesn’t split source and dac (and you save on digital and additional power cable) and offers recommended solution with a Power line which is way cheaper compared to other systems.
I don't think the actual mains cable make any difference to the unit as after all the mains has come many miles before it even gets to your house, so just replacing 1m, or 2m length when after that it once again goes to probably crap cabling inside the unit. Isn't going to make any difference really is it.
But behind your rack is many cables, all carrying different singles. These can pick up nasty interference from them mains cables, and I think this is where the gains are to be had from a better cable or should I say better shielding.
Naim doesn't use any shielding in its cables, as they say it sounds better, well it certainly costs much less.
It also means you have to pay attention to the cables due to all having no shielding and so prone to picking up all sorts of nasty stuff as they go from box to box.
I think as you go up the crazy naim ladder, buying more and more boxes, this becomes a bigger problem, but one you will find inpoves if you do the naim cable dressing or obviously you can just buy cables that have shielding and don't worry about it.
That choice is obviously yours, but obviously naim will say it will ruin the sound, if you don't use their cables.
For me I chose to have better cables when I had all my naim kit, so I could just enjoy the music rather than worry about if a cable had moved and touched another one.
But behind your rack is many cables, all carrying different singles. These can pick up nasty interference from them mains cables, and I think this is where the gains are to be had from a better cable or should I say better shielding.
Naim doesn't use any shielding in its cables, as they say it sounds better, well it certainly costs much less.
It also means you have to pay attention to the cables due to all having no shielding and so prone to picking up all sorts of nasty stuff as they go from box to box.
I think as you go up the crazy naim ladder, buying more and more boxes, this becomes a bigger problem, but one you will find inpoves if you do the naim cable dressing or obviously you can just buy cables that have shielding and don't worry about it.
That choice is obviously yours, but obviously naim will say it will ruin the sound, if you don't use their cables.
For me I chose to have better cables when I had all my naim kit, so I could just enjoy the music rather than worry about if a cable had moved and touched another one.
I guess you maybe using not an accurate analogy - EM is not water, it travels at the speed of light, it really doesn’t matter how many miles there were before…
colasblue
pfm Member
Interesting trhought line ......,,
The electronic engineers who design the kit are presumably highly competent, otherwise the kit wouldn't be any good you'd think?
How then are these same engineers sufficiently incompetent to not be able to get a signal from one end to the other of a metre of ordinary cable without some form of corruption or loss?
The electronic engineers who design the kit are presumably highly competent, otherwise the kit wouldn't be any good you'd think?
How then are these same engineers sufficiently incompetent to not be able to get a signal from one end to the other of a metre of ordinary cable without some form of corruption or loss?
Why do you consider them incompetent - they offer a great product in the form of a cable which is a good hi-fi upgrade. People tend have a pre-conception of ”knowing” that a cable cannot work because it is just a cable. But the vast majority of people are just primary school level in understanding how things work so what is really needed is just to buy a set of good cables and try.
Suffolk Tony
Aim low, achieve your goals, avoid disappointment.
Got a few of these left over from when I had Naim kit, so they're on pre, amp, DAC & Radikal LP12 supply. Dunno if they make a difference with these bits of kit because I left them where they were plugged into the supply & honestly I can't be ars*d b*ggering about with swapping bits of wire around.
Many moons ago, when I had an Armageddon power supply for the Old Orange Box, I tried a Powerline on that, just because it was easy to reach. Against all expectations I was quite taken aback by the improvement it made. Very strange!
Many moons ago, when I had an Armageddon power supply for the Old Orange Box, I tried a Powerline on that, just because it was easy to reach. Against all expectations I was quite taken aback by the improvement it made. Very strange!
colasblue
pfm Member
I don't consider them incompetent.
I do consider the people who buy expensive cables to be badly misguided though.
I'm a bit beyond "O"level since I hold a Physics degree.
Note that I'm not saying all cables sound the same - they don't, but an excellent sounding cable can be made out of (the correctly designed and fit for purpose) off the shelf stuff for a few quid. It really doesn't need to cost more than a tenner in most cases.
I really can't see anything in mains cable unless you're also going to upgrade the entire National grid from the power station to your house, and then all the other cabling in your house up to the socket. Just the last two metres though? No chance. I do believe you might be able to get improvements by cleaning or improving contacts, but that isn't fundamental to the nature of the cable, just the connectors.
Same as me so it’s easy for you to understand that last meters count because those are exactly which interact with a power supply of the device (and the noise it inevitably produces).
As for the assumption that everything can be obtained for a few quid… well, one of the cables I’m using has ruthenium connectors, it will be interesting to know where you can find such shelf:
colasblue
pfm Member
I can understand that a cable could have some secondary function which enables it to act as some sort of filter, but if any such filter is necessary it should form part of the equipment design rather than be left to chance based on which expensive cable the user chooses.
And yes of course you can use ridiculously expensive materials, but is there any actual science to suggest they do a better job, particularly if they connect with the standard materials used in the socket and IEC inlet? Produce it and convince me if you can!
Until then I'll stick with standard copper & brass and MK with possibly the odd bit of nickel plating on the fuse endcaps and IEC inlets.
And yes of course you can use ridiculously expensive materials, but is there any actual science to suggest they do a better job, particularly if they connect with the standard materials used in the socket and IEC inlet? Produce it and convince me if you can!
Until then I'll stick with standard copper & brass and MK with possibly the odd bit of nickel plating on the fuse endcaps and IEC inlets.
Is that a Tapeworm?Another good example is a cross-section of the Stealth Dream line of cables:
Sorry, zero intention of doing so…) But if you never experienced what at least 2-3k cables can do for a system it’s too early to judge regarding their relative performance vs those that go for free
Science? I would call it Sci-fi
colasblue
pfm Member
The science of cabling is actually very well understood. That just looks like "I don't know what the hell is best (or even correct) for the job so I'll just try everything at the same time".
Does it come with its own multiway specially impedance matched connector which you have to retrofit to your equipment?
No didn't think so!
If I absolutely wanted to guarantee some sort of undesirable signal dispersion (ie different frequencies arriving at different times) I would use something like that!
It's exactly like making an interconnect out of concurrently connected star quad and multiple runs of two different diameters of coaxial interconnect.
You could have a lot of fun fitting that into a din plug!
At what point do you accept that you're just spouting bollox?
Does it come with its own multiway specially impedance matched connector which you have to retrofit to your equipment?
No didn't think so!
If I absolutely wanted to guarantee some sort of undesirable signal dispersion (ie different frequencies arriving at different times) I would use something like that!
It's exactly like making an interconnect out of concurrently connected star quad and multiple runs of two different diameters of coaxial interconnect.
You could have a lot of fun fitting that into a din plug!
At what point do you accept that you're just spouting bollox?
If you do decide on trying one, put it into your system, forget about it for a couple of weeks the exchange back to what you originally had. if you get a drop in performance then it works for you, if not then get rid.
This is how I compare all cables and tweaks etc as I get a better sense of what I’m gaining from learning what I’m loosing if that makes sense and that way, I know it’s not my ears, mind or my credit card statement tricking me Into a decision.
Do power cables in general make a difference? Yeah they do and I’ve tried many times before swapping back to the cheapo supplied cables and the loss has been dramatic in most instances.
This is how I compare all cables and tweaks etc as I get a better sense of what I’m gaining from learning what I’m loosing if that makes sense and that way, I know it’s not my ears, mind or my credit card statement tricking me Into a decision.
Do power cables in general make a difference? Yeah they do and I’ve tried many times before swapping back to the cheapo supplied cables and the loss has been dramatic in most instances.
Is it really? For example a Stealth cable above is filled with the Helium, it’s 15 times lighter than air and it’s dielectric permittivity is closer to the vacuum. And as you know according to the Poynting vector it’s where flux density of the EM field is concentrated.