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My new bike frame build

stevec67 said:
As you have guessed the work is substantial. For reference, Mike's bike doesn't use lugs, he hand cuts and files his tubes so the mitres fit perfectly. Then he brazes, not welds, the joints, and files them smooth. Frames done like this are a labour of love, most builders don't do this for obvious reasons, they buy ready made lugs and braze tubes of the appropriate length to them to build the frame. Much easier.
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Excellent description. My Dave Yates Colombus MaxOR brazed joints are a work of art. It needs some TLC including a respray. Retirement project.
 
Woodface said:
Everything has changed, Mavic used to be the ‘go to’ but now utter crap. DT Swiss? Used to be really good, last pair I bought 3 spokes went on one ride, Freehub seemingly made of cheese. Not many wheel builders around now either.

Everything is build down to a price, corners cut everywhere. Fine for occasional riders in flat areas but utter rubbish for year rounders like me who live in a hilly area.
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I agree and I used to rely on the likes of Mavic. Over the past 10 years I had two wheel sets built for me by DCR (near Lewes Sussex) that have been superb, both Archetype rims and his DCR hubs, I would have gone to him for something else but fancied the unbranded hence cheap White T11 hubs Pacenti were offering hence my last wheels were from there, again very good.

When a set of Dura Ace wheel rims died quickly leaving me with beautiful but paperweight 16/20 7850 hubs I vowed to never again buy a set of wheels that can’t be rebuilt.
 
Paul L said:
I agree and I used to rely on the likes of Mavic. Over the past 10 years I had two wheel sets built for me by DCR (near Lewes Sussex) that have been superb, both Archetype rims and his DCR hubs, I would have gone to him for something else but fancied the unbranded hence cheap White T11 hubs Pacenti were offering hence my last wheels were from there, again very good.

When a set of Dura Ace wheel rims died quickly leaving me with beautiful but paperweight 16/20 7850 hubs I vowed to never again buy a set of wheels that can’t be rebuilt.
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Why can't you rebuild the above?
 
That's a very beautiful build - if I could make something like that, I would mount it on the wall so that every visitor could see my skillz :cool:
 
Paul L said:
No, those are the wheels I moved to as all are rebuildable
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OK, thanks. So why weren't the other ones rebuildable? Surely any serviceable hub can be relaced with the appropriate number of new spokes and a new rim of appropriate size, spoke number and the rest? As I say, I don't bother because by the time I have worn through a set of rims the hubs, FWH and spoke holes are all looking seriously second hand and it's just not worth the trouble. This applies to a Hope hub I had just the same as any others, once it's worn out it's worn out.
 
You’re right Steve, even those I moved away from we’re probably rebuildable but sometimes proprietary or less sensible spoke types made it harder and I think with the Pacenti and DCR builds I mentioned I made a conscious decision to move to wheels that were easier to rebuild along the way whilst being good quality. The 7850 hubs with 16 and 20 spoke count definitely harder though, I couldn’t find any rims at a sensible price to have them built up with. Much easier if they had been at least 20/24.

I’m looking forward to seeing the OPs final build, I love my bikes for different reasons but can’t see me ever parting with my Roberts steel bike.
 
AudioAl said:
Just lovely , What is the bike jig you are using ?
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I have an Anvil jig which I had to get imported from the USA. It cost me about £4700! back in 2014 and I expect it'd be more now. A great bit of kit.

I've only made four frame on it so far, so I'll need to make a bunch more before it starts to pay for itself!
 
Here's something you might find interesting.

Butts marked on tube by Michael Pickwell, on Flickr

The tube closest to the camera is the downtube. In this case it's a Reynolds part number BX2110L

That particular tube has the following spec:
Material - 853
Total length - 680mm
Diameter - 31.75mm

It is a double taper butted tube, which means that it has a greater wall thickness at either end, is thinner in the middle and there is a tapered transition between the two wall thicknesses.

The wall thicknesses are 0.8mm/0.5mm/0.8mm

And the butting profile is: 120mm of 0.8mm, then a transition of 50mm, then a 300mm length at 0.5mm, then a 50mm transition up to a final 160mm section of 0.8mm again.

Before I do any cutting I mark the butts on the tube using a black maker pen (the black lines around the tube). I can then offer this up to the jig and decided where best to cut the tubes for maximum strength.

But before getting that far a great deal of time is spent deciding on the best tubes to use in the first place. Many people will be familiar with the famous Reynolds three digit numbering of their tubesets (753/531/853 etc) but the number only tell you what the material is and doesn't tell you anything about the diameter, wall thickness or butting profile etc.

For example, Reynolds make off the peg 853 options in anything from 25.4mm diameter up to 38.1mm and in wall thicknesses from 0.6/0.4 up to 0.9/0.6

The wall thickness and especially the tube diameter have far more impact on how a frame will ride than the specific steel alloy used.

A skilled frame builder will be able to select the right mix of tubes and geometry to give the customer a frame which is optimised for their body weight, riding style, budget and handling preferences etc. It's the difference between a fully tailored Savile Row suit and a off the peg suit from M&S.

I could build two 853 frames with the exact same geometry but using different tubes and they would ride utterly differently. I could make one that was ridiculously stiff and 2.5kg and another that was 1500g and very flexy. The tube selection is vitally important to how the frame will ride.
 
That is interesting Mike, and this bit:
"The wall thickness and especially the tube diameter have far more impact on how a frame will ride than the specific steel alloy used."
Isn't a surprise at all. I can well imagine that. I used to know a lad who was into MTBing in the 90s, he was a big guy and had a very energetic riding style. He used to break frames like I wore out brake blocks and chains. He ended up on a Clydesdale, a Santa Cruz of some sort, that was pretty much indestructible but that rode like an anvil and had a similar weight.
 
Are you planning on building these as a business? I know a few people who have bought bespoke frames from ‘Field’.
 
Mike P said:
Nothing fancy as it will be my winter bike. It's mostly 10sp Centaur and some Fulcrum Racing 5 wheels. I've bought a carbon fork for it as I don't own a fork jig (yet) for making my own forks.
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Maybe see if there's any NOS Potenza around, I have it on my Italian Simoncini and it's very much like Super Record with indexing. Also well done on sticking with rim brakes, I'm still not entirely sold on classic road bikes running pie plates..

Here she is 4 years ago just after I picked her up, I swopped the stem from 100mm to 120mm a couple of years ago as I'm long in the body, otherwise excusing a few marks she looks this good..

Simoncini by Jonathan Roberts, on Flickr
 
I was disappointed when Potenza disappeared. I have Record Ti 9, Veloce 10 and Chorus 11 and wanted to use Potenza when the Veloce wears out.
 
Paul L said:
I was disappointed when Potenza disappeared. I have Record Ti 9, Veloce 10 and Chorus 11 and wanted to use Potenza when the Veloce wears out.
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It’s a joy to use, very retro looking and reliable. Seek out NOS if you can before the scalpers buy it up and drive up the prices.
 
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