Music that systems have ruined or saved

[darrenyeats]

Some music is bound to sound worse on the new equipment (and some, hopefully most, indeed better). The question is then: Is it because the new gear is actually worse or the new gear is so good it reveals how 'bad' the recordings are?

I'm sorry but that's not an upgrade. If the music you like sounds worse, how can that be called an upgrade?

I stopped listening to rock/metal for a whole year with one set of speakers, before I realised.

Broadly agree with all, with comment that it can sometimes be complicated.
- I agree if you swap component A for B, and B makes important music sound worse, then A is better in THAT set up. But if you feel sure that B is better for some reason (e.g. A is MP3 and B is CD)* then you may wonder if the potential for a much better destination exists, if you question all the other parts of system.
- Another scenario, you move house and change system, tons of obvious acoustic problems in the new room, spend tons of effort and thought trying to mitigate them, make measurable improvements. Now you hear new problems you didn't notice before. Once you clean the bird crap off the outside of your windows, only then will the stains on the inside come to your attention and really start to disturb you.**
- As Colombo wrote above, it can take time for pennies to drop.

*on one part of my crazy audio journey, I did perceive this, and it sent me off studying and playing with digital upsampling filters, to great effect

**also me (grin)

 

[S-Man]

Radiohead - ruined by all systems. Can be saved by powering off!

 

[gez]

Piano is a deal breaker for me, and so are vocals. Maybe the two most important things to get right. I have four amps that I've built and when piano and vocals aren't right I have to make component changes until they are. I'm not a passive listener here - whatever isn't right goes straight onto the bench for modification.

So in answer to the question, my test tracks remain the same year in and year out. It's the system that gets changed, not the music. I love my test tracks to bits and when they are right, everything is right.

I'm interested to know in what way systems ruin the sound of piano in your opinion. What is it that they typically do to the sound of piano that ruins your enjoyment?

I've seen comments from reviewer stating that they felt that certain amplifiers or speakers etc made piano sound too "clangy" for example. I have to admit that I'm struggling to understand what that actually means. Surely a lot of how a piano sounds very much depends on how it's been recorded. e.g. how close the microphone(s) were etc?

In any event, I really don't know what "clangy" means, past imagining someone banging a lot of pots and pans together, but that's a sound that is so far removed from the frequency spectrum of any piano I can't see how it can in any way be applicable as a descriptor for the sound of a piano under any circumstances.

This is a genuine question, because in my opinion I think my system does piano particularly well, but I do sometimes wonder if maybe someone else may consider it "clangy" (or not).

 

[Chris]

This’ll kill yer - One on One - by Bob James and Earl Klugh. Yes from the early Jazz Fusion days. The one with some book matches on the cover , written off by me as a bummer buy, what, forty years ago as Berkley College type muzak as if the Music business could be learnt at College. Musical originality obviously can’t be but the sheer polish and see-through to the low level detail in depths of the tasteful production I now hear through my system make me glad I kept it. Even the bass sounds almost like a real instrument and Kugh’s guitardefinitely does. Not for hanging in the Louvre but would make for a nice print in a tastefully decorated home.

 

[Minio]

There is an album coming to mind. Basically because it's what I am playing as I type.

Coltrane - Blue Train.

I have this on CD and it sounds good.
I'm currently playing the Blue Note vinyl version and now it really comes alive.

I guess that just shows that a Pink Triangle Anniversary / Jelco 750/ Hana ML beats an Arcam CD192 hands down.

But then more expensive gear does sound better, mostly.

 

[darrenyeats]

Radiohead - ruined by all systems. Can be saved by powering off!

You just need a system that can handle bass properly ... (Hah-hah, just kidding, I've been saving that one!)

 

[Dom500]

I think piano is generally used to spot weaknesses in a system.

 

[Minio]

Piano is a deal breaker for me..

I don't usually have a problem with piano.
Avoid 1970's budget cassette decks though.

Sometimes the recording engineer is the one at fault not your system.

I have one or two albums where the engineer makes the piano sound awful.
It should be crystal clear not bloated or distorted.

 

[Alex S]

For a piano to sound good a system needs to be pretty full range and if vinyl, the record player needs to go round at the correct speed.

 

[John Phillips]

For a piano to sound good a system needs to be pretty full range and if vinyl, the record player needs to go round at the correct speed.

And at the bottom end of the frequency range the system needs to be able to go loud enough to avoid noticeable level compression.

 

[Whaleblue]

Radiohead - ruined by all systems. Can be saved by powering off!

Funnily enough, I was at @Snufkin ’s house recently, and we listened to OK Computer on his second system. He’d just played some very good guitar/voice stuff which sounded lovely, but the Radiohead stuff was something of a congested mess.

I don’t think he minded me saying so, as I was offered more wine later, but it was an eye-opener that that music needs a system capable of handling what’s going on to sound right. Of course it’s perfectly possible to have such a system, and simply not like the music, but…

 

[Jazzer]

Funnily enough, I was at @Snufkin ’s house recently, and we listened to OK Computer on his second system. He’d just played some very good guitar/voice stuff which sounded lovely, but the Radiohead stuff was something of a congested mess.

I don’t think he minded me saying so, as I was offered more wine later, but it was an eye-opener that that music needs a system capable of handling what’s going on to sound right. Of course it’s perfectly possible to have such a system, and simply not like the music, but…

I can’t stand that guy Thom‘s voice so it wouldn’t matter how good the recordings were or weren’t for me. Lol

 

[Mr Pig]

He’d just played some very good guitar/voice stuff which sounded lovely, but the Radiohead stuff was something of a congested mess.

Yip, it's really easy to make simple music sound good. Busy, compressed stuff, not so much.

 

[Snufkin]

Funnily enough, I was at @Snufkin ’s house recently, and we listened to OK Computer on his second system. He’d just played some very good guitar/voice stuff which sounded lovely, but the Radiohead stuff was something of a congested mess.

I don’t think he minded me saying so, as I was offered more wine later, but it was an eye-opener that that music needs a system capable of handling what’s going on to sound right. Of course it’s perfectly possible to have such a system, and simply not like the music, but…

Whaleblue is spot-on. The weakest link, a rather lovely but elderly Planar 2 with an Acos arm sporting a Denon 103, was out of its depth with Radiohead. On some material, usually simpler stuff, it sounded pretty good considering its humble status.

I have just replaced the Planar 2 with a new Technics 1200GR so will repeat the Radiohead experiment with the same cartridge. Later I plan to try an ATPTG and see what that brings to the party.

PS – if anyone wants a near mint Planar 2, please PM me.

 

[Snufkin]

A wet day here so a good time to experiment with the new turntable and various cartridges.

The Technics with the venerable Denon 103 (previously fitted to the Rega) was a significant improvement on the elderly Rega but then so it should. Sound was fuller/richer but not as much detail as I was expecting.

Then I fitted the AT-33PTGII to a headshell and spun the record again and suddenly it all came together (I get it now Ian, it’s great). No ‘congestion’ and the multi-layering of the mix was evident; that was completely missing on the Rega, well it was to me.

To double check I have just played an LP I am very familiar with (Steve Miller – Recall The Beginning, A Journey from Eden). It’s the best it’s sounded since I dismantled my main system with the Well Tempered/Dyavector combo. At some point I must try the Dynavector XXII on the Technics and see how that fares. I suspect it will probably sound little better/different to the AT but you never know.

So what have I learnt; not a lot really? Better turntables and cartridges give better results, yes. However with some material lesser beasts can really sound OK as the Planar did with some simple acoustic based material. I suppose I should now stick the ATPTG on the Rega and listen to that.

Back on topic, my system ruined Radiohead but now does them justice, however I had to change the turntable and cartridge to get there.

Just to recap on alterations/equipment:

The Rega is an early Planar 2 – a turntable I first heard in the 80’s.

The Denon 103 has 2-300 hours and is nicely run in – the 103 was my first taste of MC carts and is a great ‘bang for buck’ product. The AT should, and does, run rings round it.

The AT-33PTGII is a cart I have owned before and, like the 103, is good value for money considering the performance you are getting. Its brand new so should limber up over a few more hours but sounds great straight out the box.

The Technics 1200GR is straight out of the box and I have never seen, owned or used one before. I now completely see what the fuss is about, heavy, beautifully built (apart from the arm lift), sounds great, and does its job well – what’s not to like.

 

[music fiend]

Yip, it's really easy to make simple music sound good. Busy, compressed stuff, not so much.

I agree. But I must say that Ok Computer is absolutely brilliant and it can sound quite good actually.
I remember going to an MBL demo where No Surprises was playing and it sounded great.

The 2017 OKNOTOK remaster/ special edition (available in Qobuz 24/96) is just playing and it is sounding very good to my ears right now.

 

[Tony L]

I haven’t played OK computer in decades. I don’t think since Kid A came out. I’ll dig it out at some point (only got the CD), but I saw Kid A as the big Radiohead title and the path from there has been far more interesting to me.

 

[Tony L]

The 2017 OKNOTOK remaster/ special edition (available in Qobuz 24/96) is just playing and it is sounding very good to my ears right now.

Tidal only seem to have the 16/44, which is strange. Just quickly compared the first few bars with what I assume is the bog standard CD master (again on Tidal) and I’m actually preferring the latter. Sounds fine anyway. Big Tannoys tend to be very good with distorted guitar/rock stuff; they can do the various layers without getting muddy or harsh. Thom York sounds like he’s singing via a semi-broken SM58 and strong limiting, but he always does, and I‘m sure that it is very deliberate.

 

[music fiend]

A disclaimer:
I must say that I love almost all Radiohead albums. There is one that I just like, The King of Limbs.

PS I'll revisit it as I haven't listened to it in many years. Time flies in a scary way sometimes.

 

[Tony L]

King Of Limbs made little impression aside from the packaging, I got the newspaper they were giving away on release day too. That said I can’t remember anything at all about Pablo Honey, other than I do have the CD.

PS I’d forgotten how good OK Computer is!