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monitors + subwoofer as a strategy for bass management

jamesd

jamesd

pfm Member
maybe this is common knowledge...maybe it's not a good strategy at all.

My room has vaulted ceilings, a suspended hardwood floor and drywall on all sides; not an ideal room for audio, but it is what it is.

I've had many speakers through my room and have settled on Snell J's. If I stick them in the corners like Audio Notes, they get pretty boomy, but I like the big wall of sound/ultra wide soundstage that configuration produces.

I'm wondering if the ability to place stand-mount monitors in a specific location (away from walls and spread far apart), and the ability to independently place a single bass driver/subwoofer in a non-boomy location is an effective strategy to mitigate boomy bass. Something like the Kii Three is far out of budget and I'm not interested in involving active computers and microphones.

I've had LS50's in the past and they worked reasonably well in the room, but ultimately I found them a bit hard at volume, and didn't do scale as well as my Snells.

Forgive me for thinking out loud...any comments are appreciated, including monitor/subwoofer recommendations.
 
Every room has room modes, and placement of speakers, or sub woofers, can only do so much.
I have stand mounts, a pair of subs, and use dsp to get rid of the room modes.

My 2 cents.
 
You just need to EQ out the’boom’ really straightforward , EQ is in software DACs and loudspeakers as well an inexpensive processors.
Keith
 
Purité Audio said:
You just need to EQ out the’boom’ really straightforward , EQ is in software DACs and loudspeakers as well an inexpensive processors.
Keith
Click to expand...

is there a way to do this with an integrated amp lacking preamp input/outputs for both digital and analog sources?
 
What are your sources?
I suspect MinIDSP will make a suitable processor, usually they sit between preamp power, we used to sell the ‘Nano Digi’ that kept everything in the digital domain.
Keith
 
Purité Audio said:
What are your sources?
I suspect MinIDSP will make a suitable processor, usually they sit between preamp power, we used to sell the ‘Nano Digi’ that kept everything in the digital domain.
Keith
Click to expand...

MacBook Pro and Rega RP6, both directly into Yamaha AS-801
 
If you want to keep box count to a minimum, the simplest and cheapest way is to download a music player that provides facility for AU plugins (such as Audirvana+, for which there is a free trial available). You can then apply a parametric EQ plugin to ameliorate the amplitude of your worst offending modes. If you want a more advanced solution that also offers time-alignment, you need software such as DiracLive. I used to use Dirac to very good effect, but with my current loudspeaker arrangement I'm able to get very good results with just a couple of parametric notch EQ filters. AIUI, time alignment correction is more important with asymmetric layouts and systems in which the bass drivers are not physically aligned with the mids/tweeters, such as a satellite/sub arrangement. I have intentionally located my subwoofers on the same horizontal plane as my main speakers, to minimise potential timing issues.
 
An Alternative view - with less technology:

You may want to consider isolating speakers and or their stands from the suspended floor. Townshend do a wonderful device but the cost is high - I think there are cheaper alternatives.
 
All IME, but Unlikely. The frequencies at which speaker/room interactions produce standing waves are usually very narrow and at the upper end of the range that handled by a subwoofer. DSP would tell you where, but would be difficult to implement well for analogue without spending a lot of money and changing your amp. However, different enclosure types will have different room interactions. I used to have a room that was really boomy with larger ported speakers, but great with smaller infinite baffle boxes, but that was fully enclosed with supporting walls, unlike yours. When I did have a large-ish room bounded by studwork walls I found Spendor SP2s worked very well, which are probably similar in size and character to the Snells you already have. Sometimes you have to live with a compromise.
 
foxwelljsly said:
All IME, but Unlikely. The frequencies at which speaker/room interactions produce standing waves are usually very narrow and at the upper end of the range that handled by a subwoofer. DSP would tell you where, but would be difficult to implement well for analogue without spending a lot of money and changing your amp. However, different enclosure types will have different room interactions. I used to have a room that was really boomy with larger ported speakers, but great with smaller infinite baffle boxes, but that was fully enclosed with supporting walls, unlike yours. When I did have a large-ish room bounded by studwork walls I found Spendor SP2s worked very well, which are probably similar in size and character to the Snells you already have. Sometimes you have to live with a compromise.
Click to expand...

Thanks. The LS50's did a lot of things right but I couldn't get over their small sense of scale. I did spend a lot of time reading LS3/5 threads on here last night. I don't know if any small sealed monitors could sound any larger than LS50's.

Maybe something front-ported like the Harbeth Compact 7ES-3
 
I wonder if the Snell k (not j) coupled with a good sealed subwoofer or two (bk electronics maybe) would do the trick.
 
Snell Js are lovely. If you like them keep them!

Such problems are often down to room modes. Measure your room, especially waterfall in the bass area. Look for a long resonance.

Maybe buy some tuned membrane traps at the problem frequency (or frequencies). I use GIK Scopus - you can order custom frequencies/sizes. You will need to find room and money for them but enough of them (I suggest 4 to start with) might take the edge off enough for you. They should be placed flat on the (edit: ) rear wall.

One positive is that such treatments will benefit any speaker you choose in the future, since they're mitigating a room problem.
 
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darrenyeats said:
Snell Js are lovely. If you like them keep them!

Such problems are often down to room modes. Measure your room, especially waterfall in the bass area. Look for a long resonance.

Maybe buy some tuned membrane traps at the problem frequency (or frequencies). I use GIK Scopus - you can order custom frequencies/sizes. You will need to find room and money for them but enough of them (I suggest 4 to start with) might take the edge off enough for you. They will need to be positioned on the front or rear wall.

One positive is that such treatments will benefit any speaker you choose in the future, since they're mitigating a room problem.
Click to expand...

would something like this and a macbook do the trick?

https://www.minidsp.com/products/ac...MIqZf1xcWL3gIVBVSGCh1aYQCNEAQYAyABEgKxtfD_BwE
 
Someone was selling a dspeaker anti mode in the classifiieds. This is a very effective and simple to use room correction device.
 
jamesd said:
MacBook Pro and Rega RP6, both directly into Yamaha AS-801
Click to expand...

You could EQ the MacBook using software. No doubt MiniDSP has a box which would slot in between your two sources and amp. However, if you would prefer a shallower learning curve, have a look at the DSPeaker Anti-Mode Dual Core.
 
I'm using a DSP sub with micro-speakers and the combinations is wonderful. The sub is a Velodyne Optimum. The speakers are ELAC 310ce and they are run full range and un-equalized. I did the initial set up of the speakers in the room without the sub, trying to achieve the most balanced presentation possible with just the ELACs. Once satisfied with the main speaker placement / sound, adding the sub is simple.

The Velodyne comes with a remote control and a microphone. I simply placed the microphone in my standard listening seat and, using the remote, directed the sub to self-equalize, which it does with 30 seconds or so with test tones. All that is left is to choose crossover, phase and volume control. I've had a few subs, but I'm now sold on the simplicity of the set-up of the Velodyne, and the end-result, much better bass in my room.
 
Waxxy said:
I'm using a DSP sub with micro-speakers and the combinations is wonderful. The sub is a Velodyne Optimum. The speakers are ELAC 310ce and they are run full range and un-equalized. I did the initial set up of the speakers in the room without the sub, trying to achieve the most balanced presentation possible with just the ELACs. Once satisfied with the main speaker placement / sound, adding the sub is simple.

The Velodyne comes with a remote control and a microphone. I simply placed the microphone in my standard listening seat and, using the remote, directed the sub to self-equalize, which it does with 30 seconds or so with test tones. All that is left is to choose crossover, phase and volume control. I've had a few subs, but I'm now sold on the simplicity of the set-up of the Velodyne, and the end-result, much better bass in my room.
Click to expand...

interesting...i appreciate the info!
 
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