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Have you had the opportunity to analyse the new drive system's signature via the Paul R test yet?
Mober DC Speed Controller for the LP12.
- Thread starter sq225917
- Start date
Chops54
pfm Member
Punch a hole in the top plate and mount the sensor on the subchassis. Fab some sort of pillar to get the sensor right up to the underside of the platter and the deck can bounce around as much as it wants.
torstoi
pfm Member
I think that the word 'suspension' as such is a bit misleading in regard to what it does in the first place.
While it does move around when lightly pushed, it's in practice not acting as a suspension alike in an 4WD vehicle in raw territory,
so is not actually doing any much suspension as such.
It's more acting as a mechanical filter, and in context of 16 stripes flying by at 33 U/pm and read out in the speed of light from close distance to the platter,
it can be seen as 'near static' in practice.
I don't know exactly, but doubt it does more than 10th of millimeters of movement during playback,,
and even if it was in the millimeter range, in relation to the above mentioned dimension, I take it it's pretty much neglectable..
edit: ..reading & thinking again I would expect severe tracking issues with such kind of moves
rather than (or far before..) any influence on speed stability..
While it does move around when lightly pushed, it's in practice not acting as a suspension alike in an 4WD vehicle in raw territory,
so is not actually doing any much suspension as such.
It's more acting as a mechanical filter, and in context of 16 stripes flying by at 33 U/pm and read out in the speed of light from close distance to the platter,
it can be seen as 'near static' in practice.
I don't know exactly, but doubt it does more than 10th of millimeters of movement during playback,,
and even if it was in the millimeter range, in relation to the above mentioned dimension, I take it it's pretty much neglectable..
edit: ..reading & thinking again I would expect severe tracking issues with such kind of moves
rather than (or far before..) any influence on speed stability..
I just made some major changes to my venerable LP12, which included changing over to the Mober. As a few items were changed I can't say the improvement was all due to the new motor and controller, but overall the sonics have improved vastly. Bass goes deeper and tighter, the music has more of a 3D depth - very nice indeed. Old and new setups are below:
Old:
Linn Plinth and top plate (plinth circa 1983 with corner braces and corner bolt added)
Trampolin 2
Greenstreet chassis
DIY Armageddon
ARO
New:
Polish Plinth
Thicker top plate
Mober DC motor and controller
All the rest unchanged.
Setup of the Linn was far easier, probably due to the top plate holding the hanger bolts more vertical.
Delivery of the Mober was very speedy, 5 days from Hong Kong, including going through customs.
I'll post impressions in more detail once I have gone though a few more days listening.
Martin
Old:
Linn Plinth and top plate (plinth circa 1983 with corner braces and corner bolt added)
Trampolin 2
Greenstreet chassis
DIY Armageddon
ARO
New:
Polish Plinth
Thicker top plate
Mober DC motor and controller
All the rest unchanged.
Setup of the Linn was far easier, probably due to the top plate holding the hanger bolts more vertical.
Delivery of the Mober was very speedy, 5 days from Hong Kong, including going through customs.
I'll post impressions in more detail once I have gone though a few more days listening.
Martin
yuckyamson
pfm Member
I'm very interested to know if you think it flat out beats a 'Geddon. Our decks are very similar.
Sorry but why are you surprised it craps on a 'Geddon? The Geddon was great when it came out but it, the Lingo etc are all 80s / 90s technology - the Mober is 2010s technology.
The 'Number9' AC motor controller which I use also blows a Lingo / 'Geddon into the dust.
Andy
Alas, Mark - all I can say is soon (which is what I might've said to you a few months ago).
Steve is suffering the same sort of QC problems you experienced with the Rubikon. So he has given up on Oz metal case makers and last week went to a China supplier.
Andy
sq225917
Bit of this, bit of that
Mober fitted to lp12 with composite subplatter and Tranquility bearing support. Was interesting to hear the difference vs a Geddon clone. Obviously more accurate timing from the Mober, less physical noise as well. Tricky fitting to a Khan top plate due to the raised parts, but it works perfectly well when you route the tachometer sensor wires over the belt.
yuckyamson
pfm Member
Uh, Andy? Please re-read my original quote, I didn't say I'm surprised if, I said I'm interested to know the man's findings. That's all.
sq225917
Bit of this, bit of that
So way back when I promised I'd fit the Mober DC power supply with optical tachometer from Edmund to an LP12, the trouble with that is I don't have an LP12. Fortunately YNWOAN (Mark ) stepped into the breach, well not really he doesn't actually own an LP12 either, but he did have a loaner unit that Roger from Tiger Paw had sent him while Mark was looking at turning his own maglev bearing into what is now the Tiger Paw Tranquility magnetic bearing support.
So, now I have an LP12. But it's got an AT cart on it, no PSU, a Rega arm and Tiger Paw Khan top plate. I set about mounting my cart, I dig my old Geddon clone PCB out of my spares box, drop my platter and sub-platter on it and give it a fettle.
Sounds good, LP12-ey, bouncy, rhythmic, a little bit dirty maybe and a tad curtailed in bass weight and detail. I've owned a couple of LP12's over the years, most recently an Aro'd, Herculese'd, Troika'd unit with spot welded subchassis and pre-cirkus bearing. These sound similar- ish.
I swap the standard Linn subplatter fro Edmund's composite stainless steel subplatter and things take a step towards the better. A little more refined overall, a touch of mid-bass hump seems to have disappeared. Everything else is still as it should be. It's not the greatest timing set-up and absolute speed accuracy seems a little flat, but hey that's Sunday afternoon mains for you.
After 30 minutes of getting to grips with it it's time for spanner and allen keys again.
I remove the Linn motor, fit the Mober DC motor, wire in the tacho, fiddle about with various wire lengths and clearances as the raised part of the Tiger Paw KAhn top plate sits under the tacho module and requires an extended motor mount bolt and 3mm spacer- all spare parts I have in the box of lost doom.
After a bit of fettling I turn my attention to the belt and ride height, there's enough clearance here, but in a perfect world I'd like to see that belt a couple of mm further up the subplatter edge.
Sound wise things have tightened up once again. Pitch is bang on, timbre has improved as has sustain of delicate notes. Starker's Cello has the full body and bottom end weight that I'm used to hearing. This is as sounding pretty damn good for something that's been cobbled together from begged, borrowed and stolen parts. Of course enough never is and I have one more none Linn sanctioned modification up my sleeve.
Tiger Paw's new Tranquility magnetic bearing support. Despite this being a new mod for the LP12 faithful I've been listening to maglev in various forms on YNWOAN's (Mark's) set-up for years. I know all too well what maglev brings to the table, or rather takes away from the table, so i'm interested to see how the Tranquility does its thing.
The lower assembly is a neat fit that goes straight over any LP12 bearing collar, it's a neat fit, weighs next to nothing and requires no set-up. The top unit that sits in subplatter is a little different.
Or rather Edmund's stainless composite subplatter is different; the mounting boss is just a little bit shorter and slightly narrower than the LP12 original platter. All it needs is a slightly thicker o-ring to clamp it down, but my protoytpe Tranquility came without the production accessory kit. Double sided tape does its thing and order is restored.
Thing is, with the platter on it doesn't look any different. Ride height is the same. Suspension alignment and armboard haven't moved. The belt runs at the same height. It still takes the same time to come up to speed. Frankly you wouldn't know the Tiger Paw Tranquility is there it's so unobtrusive.
Ah, but the veils.
Drop the needle and it's instantly obvious, especially when you drop it on the blank side of a dance music record that i use from anti-skate set-up. There's definite sense of improved silence. I know Mark's own full maglev set-up drops the noise by 3-4db under 50hz, from what I'm hearing the Tranquility does much of the same trick. Pick your cliche, cleaner windows, open windows, cotton buds and ears, all of them are applicable. It's a proper real upgrade, maybe more so than going Cirkus (heretic, burn him).
I'm going to settle down for a night in and have a good listen to some of my favourite records. I might even end up playing some of those hard to get to grips with discs. The humble fruitbox, V2.3.1.465.C rev 2.
So, now I have an LP12. But it's got an AT cart on it, no PSU, a Rega arm and Tiger Paw Khan top plate. I set about mounting my cart, I dig my old Geddon clone PCB out of my spares box, drop my platter and sub-platter on it and give it a fettle.
Sounds good, LP12-ey, bouncy, rhythmic, a little bit dirty maybe and a tad curtailed in bass weight and detail. I've owned a couple of LP12's over the years, most recently an Aro'd, Herculese'd, Troika'd unit with spot welded subchassis and pre-cirkus bearing. These sound similar- ish.
I swap the standard Linn subplatter fro Edmund's composite stainless steel subplatter and things take a step towards the better. A little more refined overall, a touch of mid-bass hump seems to have disappeared. Everything else is still as it should be. It's not the greatest timing set-up and absolute speed accuracy seems a little flat, but hey that's Sunday afternoon mains for you.
After 30 minutes of getting to grips with it it's time for spanner and allen keys again.
I remove the Linn motor, fit the Mober DC motor, wire in the tacho, fiddle about with various wire lengths and clearances as the raised part of the Tiger Paw KAhn top plate sits under the tacho module and requires an extended motor mount bolt and 3mm spacer- all spare parts I have in the box of lost doom.
After a bit of fettling I turn my attention to the belt and ride height, there's enough clearance here, but in a perfect world I'd like to see that belt a couple of mm further up the subplatter edge.
Sound wise things have tightened up once again. Pitch is bang on, timbre has improved as has sustain of delicate notes. Starker's Cello has the full body and bottom end weight that I'm used to hearing. This is as sounding pretty damn good for something that's been cobbled together from begged, borrowed and stolen parts. Of course enough never is and I have one more none Linn sanctioned modification up my sleeve.
Tiger Paw's new Tranquility magnetic bearing support. Despite this being a new mod for the LP12 faithful I've been listening to maglev in various forms on YNWOAN's (Mark's) set-up for years. I know all too well what maglev brings to the table, or rather takes away from the table, so i'm interested to see how the Tranquility does its thing.
The lower assembly is a neat fit that goes straight over any LP12 bearing collar, it's a neat fit, weighs next to nothing and requires no set-up. The top unit that sits in subplatter is a little different.
Or rather Edmund's stainless composite subplatter is different; the mounting boss is just a little bit shorter and slightly narrower than the LP12 original platter. All it needs is a slightly thicker o-ring to clamp it down, but my protoytpe Tranquility came without the production accessory kit. Double sided tape does its thing and order is restored.
Thing is, with the platter on it doesn't look any different. Ride height is the same. Suspension alignment and armboard haven't moved. The belt runs at the same height. It still takes the same time to come up to speed. Frankly you wouldn't know the Tiger Paw Tranquility is there it's so unobtrusive.
Ah, but the veils.
Drop the needle and it's instantly obvious, especially when you drop it on the blank side of a dance music record that i use from anti-skate set-up. There's definite sense of improved silence. I know Mark's own full maglev set-up drops the noise by 3-4db under 50hz, from what I'm hearing the Tranquility does much of the same trick. Pick your cliche, cleaner windows, open windows, cotton buds and ears, all of them are applicable. It's a proper real upgrade, maybe more so than going Cirkus (heretic, burn him).
I'm going to settle down for a night in and have a good listen to some of my favourite records. I might even end up playing some of those hard to get to grips with discs. The humble fruitbox, V2.3.1.465.C rev 2.
Tiger Paw's new Tranquility magnetic bearing support. Despite this being a new mod for the LP12 faithful I've been listening to maglev in various forms on YNWOAN's (Mark's) set-up for years. I know all too well what maglev brings to the table, or rather takes away from the table, so i'm interested to see how the Tranquility does its thing.
The lower assembly is a neat fit that goes straight over any LP12 bearing collar, it's a neat fit, weighs next to nothing and requires no set-up. The top unit that sits in subplatter is a little different.
Or rather Edmund's stainless composite subplatter is different; the mounting boss is just a little bit shorter and slightly narrower than the LP12 original platter. All it needs is a slightly thicker o-ring to clamp it down, but my protoytpe Tranquility came without the production accessory kit. Double sided tape does its thing and order is restored.
Thing is, with the platter on it doesn't look any different. Ride height is the same. Suspension alignment and armboard haven't moved. The belt runs at the same height. It still takes the same time to come up to speed. Frankly you wouldn't know the Tiger Paw Tranquility is there it's so unobtrusive.
Ah, but the veils.
Drop the needle and it's instantly obvious, especially when you drop it on the blank side of a dance music record that i use from anti-skate set-up. There's definite sense of improved silence. I know Mark's own full maglev set-up drops the noise by 3-4db under 50hz, from what I'm hearing the Tranquility does much of the same trick. Pick your cliche, cleaner windows, open windows, cotton buds and ears, all of them are applicable. It's a proper real upgrade, maybe more so than going Cirkus (heretic, burn him).
I'm going to settle down for a night in and have a good listen to some of my favourite records. I might even end up playing some of those hard to get to grips with discs. The humble fruitbox, V2.3.1.465.C rev 2.
Great write-up, Simon - thanks.
I am eagerly awaiting delivery of mine - it's over 3 weeks since Roger told me he'd shipped it. I will note carefully the fitting to an SSP12!
Andy