Minimum alcohol pricing
- Thread starter gassor
- Start date
Cav
pfm Member
I don't care what world of privilege you live in.
Who is in this sub-category of humanity "The Poor"? Are they the "Undeserving Poor" or the "Deserving Poor?
Alchohol is legal even now. Would you ban it for everyone or just "The Poor"?
My brother was an adult and made choices as adults should be allowed to do. He was not "Poor" financially or morally.
You strike me as a well-heeled moralist hypocrite who, whilst watching Jeremy Kyle, judges others for their immorality whist quaffing the finest wines known to humanity with a side order of fois gras....
Darth Vader
From the Dark Side
I do think that alcohol is deliberately in some cases sold on the cheap possibly to bring people 'on board'. For example there is beer for sale in my local ASDA that is cheaper than a pre-prepared container of coffee and the former has duty included in the price. You can pay less than £1 for a 440ml can of beer and I actually bought a can of Bass red label today for £1,05 and yes it tasted fine all 2.2 units. At the same time my bottle of ginger beer (none alcoholic cost £2. Makes you think if there is an ulterior motive? I know I've heard of loss leaders but these prices are not 'special' but are regular.
Crisps is another weird area. Its £1.50 in my local ASDA for a 5 pack but you can buy 3 packs of these for £3. So buy two for £3 and add another for free.
It seems that some prices are set to encourage some people to over indulge. I only wish that I could buy a good single malt this way but alas the prices are set so that only junk becomes really cheap.
Strange World we live in.
Cheers,
DV
Crisps is another weird area. Its £1.50 in my local ASDA for a 5 pack but you can buy 3 packs of these for £3. So buy two for £3 and add another for free.
It seems that some prices are set to encourage some people to over indulge. I only wish that I could buy a good single malt this way but alas the prices are set so that only junk becomes really cheap.
Strange World we live in.
Cheers,
DV
gassor
There may be more posts after this.
Older drinkers overdoing the booze is no joke. New figures show that dangerously high levels of alcohol consumption by baby boomers are leading to growing numbers of over-65s being hospitalised, adding to pressures on the NHS. They are the age group most likely to exceed the drink guidelines. Young people have cut back.
https://www.theguardian.com/society...er-65s-excess-drinking-dementia-liver-disease
https://www.theguardian.com/society...er-65s-excess-drinking-dementia-liver-disease
Joe Hutch
Mate of the bloke
Yebbut if they die, they will release shedloads of housing for the younger people, who will be fit from cutting down on the booze and thus able to tackle the DIY jobs that the old codgers have been avoiding for years.
gassor
There may be more posts after this.
Yes officer I've had a few, but I'm only doing it for the good of the country (hic).
Mullardman
Moderately extreme...
We all make our own choices, but Govt. is just cynical.
I don't think I've lost any relatives to the effects of Alcohol.. but then I've lost them to other 'preventable' causes, such as suicide, which weren't the Govt's 'Demon of Choice' at the time, mostly, I suspect, because it is cheap to go on endlessly about alcohol, whereas doing anything about Mental Health issues actually requires a bit of spending.
I don't think I've lost any relatives to the effects of Alcohol.. but then I've lost them to other 'preventable' causes, such as suicide, which weren't the Govt's 'Demon of Choice' at the time, mostly, I suspect, because it is cheap to go on endlessly about alcohol, whereas doing anything about Mental Health issues actually requires a bit of spending.
Mullardman
Moderately extreme...
P.S. The culture definitely changed decade or so back. Most young people then seemed to think that the only purpose in drinking was to get absolutely out of their tree. Not saying I didn't do that on occasion as a youngster.. but it wasn't the sole, or even frequently desired outcome.
These days.. I like a drink. End of the day.. often whilst on here. Mostly wouldn't thank you for an alcoholic drink before 10 pm.
These days.. I like a drink. End of the day.. often whilst on here. Mostly wouldn't thank you for an alcoholic drink before 10 pm.
Probably some truth in that, particularly for retired people. The thought of work in the morning prevents excessive drinking weekdays for many.
cubastreet
Espresso Fiend
At 50p a unit, ten units a day would still only cost 35 pounds a week. Any self respecting alcoholic can beg a fiver a day. It's not nearly enough to be anything but a poor tax.
I don't think you can get alcohol any cheaper than that here in NZ and there's plenty of problem drinking.
I've been living near a university for the last nine years and the amount of parties has been dropping off in that time for sure. In fact, when I sit out front of the house I've noticed these last few years that I see less and less students walking about too. Perhaps they're all binge watching Netflix or something.
I don't think you can get alcohol any cheaper than that here in NZ and there's plenty of problem drinking.
I've been living near a university for the last nine years and the amount of parties has been dropping off in that time for sure. In fact, when I sit out front of the house I've noticed these last few years that I see less and less students walking about too. Perhaps they're all binge watching Netflix or something.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
Couple of points on this. Firstly, an alcoholic is probably going to burn through >10 units before breakfast, so your figure is meaningless. Secondly, this marks the introduction on minimum pricing policy. It seems likely to me that, if the evidence shows that the policy has a beneficial effect (which it is likely to do) the minimum price will creep up in future, just as tobacco duty did.
JensenHealey
pfm Member
Hmm I think you are right. My eldest daughter is 2nd year uni right now. I see what she and her friends get up to. There is plenty of drinking but I am sure there is less overall than my day, 40 years ago, where some chaps got most of their weekly calories from beer in the Student bars. Where she is the local village that used to hold enough pubs for a decent bar crawl has now only about 2 or 3 left and the 'famous' bar crawls have stopped altogether. Students go there now to get a nice ice-cream.... its true.
There could be multiple reasons for 'lower' typical alcohol consumption among students today - fashion, work ethic (driven by student debt worries?), cost of living increases (rent being a bigger proportion of the weekly budget now), modern phone technology, Netflix etc.
There could be multiple reasons for 'lower' typical alcohol consumption among students today - fashion, work ethic (driven by student debt worries?), cost of living increases (rent being a bigger proportion of the weekly budget now), modern phone technology, Netflix etc.
JensenHealey
pfm Member
There is a fine balance here to avoid the cross channel booze runs again!
Sue Pertwee-Tyr
Accuphase all the way down
Perhaps. But the most populous areas of Scotland are an hour or two from the border, at best, so it'd require a degree of organisation. Which adds cost and erodes the difference. I suspect some will bother, but many will not.
glancaster
In the silicon vale
Still some doubt here it seems, but alcohol has normal supply and demand curves - as the price goes up, consumption goes down. Even, on average, for people with problematic consumption patterns *.
"Again, the general conclusion that can be drawn from the studies examining the impact of alcoholic beverage taxes and prices on various health outcomes related to alcohol is that increases in taxes and prices would lead to significant reductions in the health consequences of alcohol use and abuse."
"The rapidly growing research on the impact of alcoholic beverage prices and control policies on violence and other crime produces generally consistent findings that increases in taxes and prices lead to significant reductions in violence."
"SUMMARY AND CONCLUSIONS
A large and growing body of research conducted by economists over the past two decades has examined the impact of alcoholic beverage taxes and prices on drinking prevalence, frequency, and intensity, as well as on a host of adverse outcomes related to alcohol use and abuse. The majority of these studies support the hypothesis that increases in alcoholic beverage prices, which can be achieved by raising federal and state alcohol excise taxes as well as through a variety of other policies, are effective in reducing alcohol use. Many of these studies clearly show that these reductions in use are not limited to drinking by light or infrequent drinkers; significant reductions are also seen in heavy and/or frequent drinking and its consequences. In addition, studies that look at drinking by youth generally find even larger effects of taxes and prices than are found for the overall population, suggesting that increases in prices are particularly effective in reducing youth drinking and its consequences. Although a few studies produce contradictory findings, the overall weight of the evidence supporting the effectiveness of alcohol price increases in reducing alcohol use, abuse, and related problems is substantial."
Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK37612/
Kind regards
- Garry
* Although not addressed by the quoted paper, there is growing evidence that 'people with problematic consumption patterns' means almost all drinkers, as there is no overall safe limit, merely a standard dose/response relationship - the more you drink the higher your risk. (Although there are protective effects for certain diseases so if someone is abnormally prone to those they may get a benefit from light drinking.)
"Again, the general conclusion that can be drawn from the studies examining the impact of alcoholic beverage taxes and prices on various health outcomes related to alcohol is that increases in taxes and prices would lead to significant reductions in the health consequences of alcohol use and abuse."
"The rapidly growing research on the impact of alcoholic beverage prices and control policies on violence and other crime produces generally consistent findings that increases in taxes and prices lead to significant reductions in violence."
"SUMMARY AND CONCLUSIONS
A large and growing body of research conducted by economists over the past two decades has examined the impact of alcoholic beverage taxes and prices on drinking prevalence, frequency, and intensity, as well as on a host of adverse outcomes related to alcohol use and abuse. The majority of these studies support the hypothesis that increases in alcoholic beverage prices, which can be achieved by raising federal and state alcohol excise taxes as well as through a variety of other policies, are effective in reducing alcohol use. Many of these studies clearly show that these reductions in use are not limited to drinking by light or infrequent drinkers; significant reductions are also seen in heavy and/or frequent drinking and its consequences. In addition, studies that look at drinking by youth generally find even larger effects of taxes and prices than are found for the overall population, suggesting that increases in prices are particularly effective in reducing youth drinking and its consequences. Although a few studies produce contradictory findings, the overall weight of the evidence supporting the effectiveness of alcohol price increases in reducing alcohol use, abuse, and related problems is substantial."
Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK37612/
Kind regards
- Garry
* Although not addressed by the quoted paper, there is growing evidence that 'people with problematic consumption patterns' means almost all drinkers, as there is no overall safe limit, merely a standard dose/response relationship - the more you drink the higher your risk. (Although there are protective effects for certain diseases so if someone is abnormally prone to those they may get a benefit from light drinking.)
You miserable sod! Remind me not to buy you a pint on a nice Sunday afternoon then!
gassor
There may be more posts after this.
That seems fairly clear, what is more tricky to work out is the amount of the rise in the MUP. Scottish consumption of alcohol is 20% higher (per person on average) than in England, so how much will price have to rise to achieve that lower level? Experience tells me the demand for booze up here is fairly inelastic.