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Michell/SME 3009

Hi guys - interesting thread.

i'm following it partly because i've got a Michell GyroDec i don't quite know what to do with next. its got an RB-250/300 with not very good cartridge tags, so i'm looking at replacing that. any suggestions welcome.

i've had a couple of Hadcock arms. in my experience they are quite fragile, and a 40+ year-old Hadcock arm might not stand comparison with something new, whether or not it's inherently 'better'.

if you want to compare good Denon cartidges in unipivots v Rega-type arms, why not start with the Aro?

i've run an Aro on an LP-12 with Denon cartridges and found the results very exciting. it would be hard to imagine going back to a Rega-type arm, however 'tweaked', after that.

Skyebridge
 
The Hydraulic Reference and the Lenco are both side projects, and at this stage, I wasn't intending to mess with either of the LP12s.

I had a Hadcock many years ago, with an ADC ZLM and quite liked it, but TBH, the one I have now, I got almost by default because I won it on eBay after missing out on several other arms that I would have preferred. Still, I did get it at a good price, and it's away for some mods at the moment, so it should be in good shape when it comes back.

Why not try the Audiomods arm for the GyroDec? If you self-build, it's quite competitively priced, and as I said, the blurb on the site is impressive; in effect it's a completely new design just using the Rega arm-tube, so it's not a souped-up RB250/300 at all.

The DL103 is a bit marginal in the Hadcock as stated elsewhere in pfm, because the GH228 has insufficient mass and the cartridge body is really a bit too light for the low compliance, but it would be perfect for the Audiomods; I've not decided on a cart for the Hadcock yet, but I'm open to suggestions!
 
'i've run an Aro on an LP-12 with Denon cartridges and found the results very exciting. it would be hard to imagine going back to a Rega-type arm, however 'tweaked', after that.'

Naim Aro - nothing can compete with that. Its the very bestest tonearm in the world bar none, isn't it? So exciting. Still, its nice to try other stuff now and again, eh.
 
It is a bit of a dilemma. I'm working on two turntable projects at the moment, though to be fair, the Michell turned up unexpectedly at a price I couldn't refuse. If the SME arm had been in good condition, then I would have just bought a new cartridge for it, but it isn't, so I've either got to service it or buy a new one. For the Lenco, I guess it's not too late to change my mind about the arm, because although the template is with the stonemason, he's not started it yet, but the Hadcock is away for mods, and I don't want to muck people about to much!

I've had my Aro for over twenty years, and I really love it! In that time I've used mostly Troika's, but I've also used Dynavector cartridges; 17D2 and now an XX2mkII, on a pre-fix shod, Norton powered LP12.

In an ideal world, I'd buy a couple of Aro bases and swap arm tops between the three turntables in order to find a combination that I liked, but the Aro is no longer available, and even if they were, Naim would charge so much for the components that it would be thoroughly impractical. This is a great shame, but the fact is that some of the parts or the Aro are no longer available, and there just isn't the demand to make it worthwhile for Naim to source new suppliers. To give you an idea, I had thought of using an Aro plug and socket to split the signal wires on the Hadcock (to convert it to a removable arm-top). Naim quoted me £135 for the plug and socket. To be fare to Naim, another supplier quoted me even more (almost £200, because these are quite rare parts now). Similarly, I was quoted £45 for an Aro finger lift. I ended up buying a straight SME finger lift that I can bend to shape myself, for £10 on eBay.

So the bottom line is that I can't use an Aro, unless I like one of these two new turntable so much that I take it off of the Linn!

I've got two Troikas sitting in my spares drawer too; my original that has been re-tipped and has about 25% life left according to Expert Stylus, and another, also re-tipped with ES's new shaped stylus, that's unused, but you're right, it is nice top use other components from time to time!
 
I second Abbydog's view that the Aro is quite something else.

I had my Aro refurbished by the Naim factory in 2010 prior to introducing the re-tipped Troika. The cost was quite reasonable and as I had been unwell, Shiela presented me with an arm lift mechanism - I suppose now the Aro is no longer listed there are some spares!

I have looked at the Audiomods site - it's quite interesting, and I suppose the cost of a new arm would be about 60% of a good S/H Aro.

Recently I bought a completely rebuilt/rewired 12" Ortofon arm built to Telefunken specifications for just over £400 including a top-quality arm lead. I've yet to work out what T/T to put this onto ...

So I suppose I'd like some further reports on the performance of the Rega/Michell/Audiomods arm.

Skyebridge
 
Before buying the Audiomods I read a good few reviews and remember more than one where it was compared against an SME V and faired reasonably well. Whilst the standard/modded Rega arms do have a reputation for being grey and boring, the Audiomods has never sounded the slighest bit of either. The arm-tube has several modifications and the rest of the arm is completely different. For the price of a kit and a few hours work you really can't go wrong.

Based on my experience with my modded Rega's comparing one to the Audiomods is like comparing a World Rally Car to it's road-car counterpart. They look similar but are different in a number of ways.
 
df_genius said:
Based on my experience with my modded Rega's comparing one to the Audiomods is like comparing a World Rally Car to it's road-car counterpart. They look similar but are different in a number of ways.
Click to expand...

Yes indeed.

Cross-referring to my Lenco thread, I'm having second thoughts on the arms; I'm committed to the Hadcock now, but I may fit it to the Hydraulic Reference instead. It already has an SME board, and the GH228 came with an SME mounting plate. It's just that fitting the Audiomods to the Lenco gives me more options, and may sound better too.
 
I found a picture of a Hydraulic Reference with the Audiomods arm; they do match nicely, I doubt that the Hadcock will look as good, particularly as its black rather than chrome. Mind you, it looks as if the overhang of the adjuster would prevent the lid from fitting.

ref.jpg
 
I just won this on eBay for a tenner, so at least I'll be able to experiment; if I don't like it, then I won't use it, nothing much to lose!

Soundisc_zpsd8a37eb8.jpg
 
Well, I've made quite a bit of progress with the Hydraulic Reference over the last couple of weeks. When I took a closer look at it, I found that it really was in need of an overhaul, so it has been completely stripped.

Picture015_zps8dfd765f.jpg


I ever you needed a reason not to put an expensive turntable up in the loft (which is what the guy who I sold it to did), then this is it:

Picture038_zpsf5c87c81.jpg


This is the motor after the first stage of cleaning.

Picture042_zpscf71a255.jpg


I am replacing all of the components on the motor supply board; the fuse and carrier have seen better days!

Picture034_zpscb76e5e7.jpg


Here are the bearing housing and fluid well parts after cleaning; the ball bearing was missing, I guess it fell out (along with all of the oil and silicon fluid), when the deck was hoisted up into the loft!

Picture021_zps8241d95c.jpg


I am fitting a Hadcock GH228 to this deck; it has been rewired, and I'm splitting the signal cable, to enable me to lift the arm top. I will fit a chassis plug to the armboard (in a similar fashion to the Aro).

I have a couple of Troikas in the drawer; one of them is unused since an ESCO service, and it has the latest tip shape too. I admit that this will be an unusual combination (Hydraulic Reference/Hadcock GH228/Linn Troika), but I think that I can make it work. The GH228 is too light, so I'm having a brass slug made that will bring the cartridge weight up to around 12 grams, which should bring the resonant frequency down to an acceptable level. I must admit, at this stage I have no idea how this is going to sound, but I am looking forward to hearing it!

The replacement bearing has arrived from Michell and I'm waiting for some plugs and sockets, and a piece of 4 x core Cardas to complete the arm wiring; this turntable will most likely be finished before the Lenco.
 
This is my very early Michell Hydraulic Reference with round feet (probably made by Transcriptors) that I bought new, I think the Hadcock 242 silver suits it quite well.
The pink pads are an anti vibration substance used in MRI machines. I swap ''twixt these and a laminated glass plater (Michell 1980's.)
It has been cleaned & serviced since the picture was taken.

Improvements resulted from Russ Andrews Oak Cone Feet, 8mm duralumin arm board with 1" brass spacer, Nitride ball under spindle with Audio Origami booster oil & Origin Live DC motor

phonepics038.jpg
 
Very nice; my GH228 is black, but I think it will still match nicely; I'm thinking of adding one of these counterweights:

KGrHqRlQFBg4Sm1SBQgRdjheYw60_12_zps74958e3d.jpg


On the older Hadcocks, the counterweights were a bit problematic.
 
I have been using a 60hz strobe wheel for 4 months after Transcriptors failed to send the one I paid £60 for.
I had to buy from the US bay what was listed as 50hz but turned out to be 60hz.

I saw a 50hz on the bay yesterday afternoon it arrived today by 1100 and by 1200 it was fitted sent by Stamford Audio in Lincolnshire they appear to have a few Hydraulic Reference spares...
I now have a 60hz spare?

Stamford Audio
The Old School House 115 Creeton Road
Little Bytham
Lincolnshire
NG33 4PX
United Kingdom

Phone:01780|410060
Fax:(01638) 661671
Email:[email protected]
 
Yes, I got a PM from a fellow pfm'er about the ebay stuff; frustratingly, I missed out on the plinth after being outbid, when there had previously been no interest! Mind you, I only needed the right hand trim, and that is being made for me, so it's not a problem.

I didn't realise they still had bits to be honest. I went to the audio jumble at Tonbridge on Sunday (did anybody else here go?), and Stamford were there selling records! I think that I have all the bits now, though I've not run up the motor yet, because of other issues, but I'll be sure to check them out.
 
I realised today that I have been using The Hydraulic reference with the speed adjuster arm out of fluid well you can see the control knob pointed away in my photo above.
Must be since I put in The Audio Origami Booster oil in and did rpm checks with my laser tachometer.(60hz strobe)

I adjusted the arm so it just dipped in the fluid, then brought the speed up on the Origin Live control unit with the stylus on a record to 33.3 rpm. Interestingly the stylus now had little effect when placed on a record; 0.2 rpm not the 1or2 rpm over the unloaded platter as before.

Sitting down to listen I noticed less sibilance on female voice even more space around instruments indeed quite a difference...

Can't decided if because motor having more load or less vibration or ?
 
Unless I have missed something here, and if I have then please accept my apologies now, but as you are registered as living in London why the 60Hz Tacho?, and also didn't you notice the Michell's strobe running backwards as the deck would have been running too fast with the paddle out?

Other thing is from personal experience, I have one of these, and if it is set up correctly, i.e. with paddle in, the stylus drag is non-existent..arm up or down makes no difference, at least on my deck it doesn't. It is very likely due to the fact that the paddle drag is many many times more than any tiny drag of the stylus. In fact ANY half reasonable deck should't show any drag at all..if it does it is then mechanically fundamentally flawed...and should be taken out and shot, along with it's designer.
 
Big John said:
I have been using a 60hz strobe wheel for 4 months after Transcriptors failed to send the one I paid £60 for.
I had to buy from the US bay what was listed as 50hz but turned out to be 60hz.

I saw a 50hz on the bay yesterday afternoon it arrived today by 1100 and by 1200 it was fitted sent by Stamford Audio in Lincolnshire they appear to have a few Hydraulic Reference spares...
I now have a 60hz spare?

packtech above is my entry 2 or 3 posts ago. The reason why is; My strobe wheel disintegrated in August last year I re-modelled the 14 pieces but it wobbled. I bought an as advertised 50hz one from the USA only to find it as 60hz The way I found out was because I noticed the Michell's strobe running backwards. hence the use of the laser tachometer... I use an Origin Live motor so no power to the deck it's self, now I have a 50hz strobe fitted I will switch on power for the little amber neon to shine through the strobe. I use an Origin Live Motor because Transcriptors can't be trusted I paid £60 on 06/09/12 for a strobe still no stobe or refund, ouroborous like were back at the begining.
Click to expand...
 
The missing trim has now been replaced:

Before:


Picture042_zps342b2a2e.jpg


After:

Picture045_zps2335912c.jpg


The platter is laminated with a thin brushed aluminium shim, so i decided to send it back to Michell to be re-laminated, and at the same time, I got the weights re-plated by a local company.

Before:

Picture009_zpsfd5f9c86.jpg


After:

Picture049_zps02459179.jpg
 
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