Michell Orbe - SME Model 10

[I.D.C.]

I had a Michell Orbe turntable with the tecno tone-arm. The dealer who sold Michell also sells SME turntables. The dealer kept telling me how much better the SME Model 10 with a V arm was over the Michell Orb. After a demo I opted for the SME 10 as it sounded great in the shop it was not and could not be played through my own system Linn Aktiv Akurate DS system.

Through my own system the SME has great dynamics in many way's reminding me of the DS the SME also had a similar tone to the DS being very clear.
However I miss the warmth the Michell brought to my system and I'm seriously thinking going back to the Orbe. Just remember enjoying playing LP's on the Michell while I feel something is lacking in the Model 10.

If I changed over to the Michell would I still get that warmth using the SME V arm. The Tecno arm worked a treat with the Michell.

Anyone out there any experience with both turntables.

 

[Analogue Andy]

Hi Ian, I used to own a beefed-up Gyrodec with SME IV arm before moving over to SME decks starting with the 10. Yes, I found the Michell warm and friendly sounding but much prefer the authority, grip and firmness the SME brings to the party. The SME arm is a much better than the Tecnoarm with very fine ABEC bearings. Maybe if you miss some warmth in the sound you might look at a different cartridge like a Koetsu or similar.

 

[I.D.C.]

Thanks Andy appreciate that. You could be right on the Koetsu currently I use the Sumiko Celebration 11 Cartridge.

 

[paskinn]

This sort of thing is hard, because it is about system matching and personal taste. You are clearly not totally happy with the present set-up, but I assume that switching back would entail the loss of quite a lot of money.
The suggestion for a Koetsu is one way to go, but an expensive approach. I think you might well enjoy a wooden-bodied low output Grado; they are very smooth and sweet and the 0.5mv versions don't seem to hum....well, they don't with SME decks. You will get some of the warmth and 'humanity' you clearly miss.
At which point we arrive at the usual roadblock...you can't, realistically, audition these things. You are welcome to hear my Grado on an SME deck, if you live near the South Coast.
Otherwise you just have to take a gamble, we all end up doing that. I've heard the Sumiko, very nice cartridge indeed, but not the last word in warmth . Hope you don't have to spend too much to get the sound you want.

 

[Mike Reed]

I thought Grado were all moving magnets, Peter. With an output of 0.5 mV it must be a l.o. coil.

Had an Orbe for yonks, with a Five and two Lyras plus a Black Goldline K. Whereas I've never considered the Orbe to be the remotest bit warm, it most certainly wasn't with the Five, which, by repute, is as neutral as they come (i.e. NOT warm).

The Koetsu certainly brought some colour (and brio) to the combo, though.

 

[Blzebub]

Thanks Andy appreciate that. You could be right on the Koetsu currently I use the Sumiko Celebration 11 Cartridge.

I have a Benz LP languishing in the classified. Freshly-retipped by ESCO, too. Works very well in an SME V.

 

[paskinn]

I thought Grado were all moving magnets, Peter. With an output of 0.5 mV it must be a l.o. coil

The Koetsu certainly brought some colour (and brio) to the combo, though.

Yes, the Grado 'Statement' range are oddballs because they are moving-iron cartridges with very low windings, so you get 0.5mv; not very low for a moving-coil but low for a moving-iron. The 'catch' is that you need the standard MM 47K loading, but mc gain. Quite a few mc stages don't offer 47K, although I suppose you could add a resistor.
Fortunately, my step-up does offer a 47k option. But of luck for a change. I seem to like moving-iron cartridges. I'd like to try a Soundsmith moving-iron if the chance ever arises.

 

[I.D.C.]

Thanks Paskinn that's interesting regarding the Sumiko.
The dealer let me hear the 10 through a Pathos class A amp with Zingali speakers which sounded fantastic. I put my own system on the classifieds here to see if there was any interest which there was not. It's too much of a loss to change. Annoyed I did not hear that system before purchasing the Linn.Pathos class A amp with Zingali speakers is less than half what I paid for the Linn

 

[Werner]

The 'catch' is that you need the standard MM 47K loading,

Not really. The generator impedance is very low. I once ran a low-output Grado into a current-input MC stage.

Note that Grado's published impedance specs are wrong. Don't know why. It has been that way for ages.


To the OP, and FWIW: when the Orbe was launched nearly 20 years ago there were people in the industry who preferred it to the SME 30.

 

[I.D.C.]

I have a Benz LP languishing in the classified. Freshly-retipped by ESCO, too. Works very well in an SME V.

As unusual as this sounds I have a spare Sumiko just in case anything happens to the one on the tone-arm. Living on an Island on the west coast so it's not easy to get a replacement quick should anything happen.

 

[paskinn]

Not really. The generator impedance is very low. I once ran a low-output Grado into a current-input MC stage.

Note that Grado's published impedance specs are wrong. Don't know why. It has been that way for ages.

That's interesting. I will try some different loadings, see what happens. Do you happen to know what the real impedance of the Grado statement is?

 

[Tarzan]

Hi Ian, I used to own a beefed-up Gyrodec with SME IV arm before moving over to SME decks starting with the 10. Yes, I found the Michell warm and friendly sounding but much prefer the authority, grip and firmness the SME brings to the party. The SME arm is a much better than the Tecnoarm with very fine ABEC bearings. Maybe if you miss some warmth in the sound you might look at a different cartridge like a Koetsu or similar.

Agree, try a warmer cartridge or warmer Tonearm cable?

 

[Werner]

Do you happen to know what the real impedance of the Grado statement is?

I measured the Statement Platinum generator at 2 Ohms in series with 60 microhenries. At 20kHz that inductance adds 7.5 Ohms, so you are below 10 Ohms all over the audio range.

This cartridge will drive anything above 50 Ohms easily, and below it with some treble roll-off.

 

[paskinn]

I just had another idea. How about smoothing-out the Model 10 by changing to a 12 inch arm? There are dealers who offer a special armboard for this...some guy on the Wam has been describing it in his set-up. He uses his Model 10 with the longer arm
I know that the SME 12 inch arms are quite a lot smoother and sweeter than the short versions...I have used both on other SME decks, and, for me, the change is surprisingly large. Although I haven't heard the comparison on the Model 10. That could be cheaper than some of the other solutions, and the sound would certainly be sweeter. That's what 12 inch arms seem to do, regardless of who makes them.

 

[paskinn]

I measured the Statement Platinum generator at 2 Ohms in series with 60 microhenries. At 20kHz that inductance adds 7.5 Ohms, so you are below 10 Ohms all over the audio range.

This cartridge will drive anything above 50 Ohms easily, and below it with some treble roll-off.

Very interesting. I am going to try lower loadings later today. That's a surprisingly low impedance.
Based on that, I think 100 ohms might work well. I'l give it a go. Thanks for your information. Pity Grado don't bother to provide it!