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MDAC First Listen (part XXVII)

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I compared Sonos and SBT and there was a slight blur in detail with the Sonos compared to the SBT.

I sold my SBT just before the USB trick which allowed an Async connection, but in spdif mode the SBT was very very slightly less clean than my NetTop (with Olimex isolator).
I could only pick this up with 96/24 res files, after multiple attempts.

To get spdif working sufficiently you have to match the clocks using a word clock sync connection and the sdpif.. Otherwise you need to have a spdif source of some quality. Async USB imho bypasses this hassle , but picks up another issue in regards to isolation, which in my setup I can't detect with the usb isolator in place.

Only one way to find out and thats to take a punt with the Marantz and compare the 2.

** edit in silver of course :)
 
Beammeup

None of these changes are dramatic

They are all subtle. Whether you consider they are audible, worthwhile or necessary is up to you and your personal criteria
 
JohnW just a quick question about the integration of the headphone amp circuit, just curious whether having this extra circuit limits the m-dacs full potential when using it as a preamp. Does this concern you at all or could the m-dac do better if it did not have it to begin with ?.
 
Daniel. said:
JohnW just a quick question about the integration of the headphone amp circuit, just curious whether having this extra circuit limits the m-dacs full potential when using it as a preamp. Does this concern you at all or could the m-dac do better if it did not have it to begin with ?.
Click to expand...

Extra circuit?
The headphone driver circuit is the preamp output circuit, so improvements in one are reflected in the other. Even if they were separate circuits, why should the existence of and improved performance in one circuit cause degradation in the other?
 
ChrisPa said:
Extra circuit?
The headphone driver circuit is the preamp output circuit, so improvements in one are reflected in the other. Even if they were separate circuits, why should the existence of and improved performance in one circuit cause degradation in the other?
Click to expand...

To support headphone power demand extra components would be required (or larger) to put out the stability that the load would demand. Not exactly a extra circuit like i said.

Any added complexity of a circuit causes more error, i just don't know if its enough to worry about.
 
Yes they are only controlled by a relay but this does not answer my question, you can essentially plug headphones directly into the RCA and it would work the same.

However if you try plug headphones into a systems RCA that is not designed to handle its impedance it will not work, or work very well. This is where extra components and circuitry is needed to compensate for the added load.
 
It doesn't work like that Daniel. The output stage is designed to drive any impedance, ie it has a low (essentially zero) output impedance itself. It is able to deliver both voltage and current in significant numbers.

It's not that the Mdac output is hamstrung by the requirement to drive dynamic headphones, it is that every other output stage that isn't capable of driving them is underspecified.

Your assumption that increased complexity adds error is incorrect. If you take a single device output stage you are limited by the noise and SNR of that device, if you parallel multiple devices then the SNR improves beyond that achievable with a single device.
 
PhilCTTE said:
I compared Sonos and SBT and there was a slight blur in detail with the Sonos compared to the SBT.

I sold my SBT just before the USB trick which allowed an Async connection, but in spdif mode the SBT was very very slightly less clean than my NetTop (with Olimex isolator).
I could only pick this up with 96/24 res files, after multiple attempts.

To get spdif working sufficiently you have to match the clocks using a word clock sync connection and the sdpif.. Otherwise you need to have a spdif source of some quality. Async USB imho bypasses this hassle , but picks up another issue in regards to isolation, which in my setup I can't detect with the usb isolator in place.

Only one way to find out and thats to take a punt with the Marantz and compare the 2.

** edit in silver of course :)
Click to expand...

Will do... I suspect the S/PDIF on the Marantz is likely to be superior to a bog standard (without band-aid) USB connection direct from a SBT. And as I mentioned before, many are finding that installing a USB to S/PDIF converter from a PC gives better results than directly connecting the PC to the USB DAC which tells you something's going on.

However "Jittery" AirPlay is now bugging me more. I now need to find a way to stream Spotify to the Marantz without using the convenient but "jittery" AP plugin on the Marantz - anybody got any good ideas?
 
beammeup said:
Will do... I suspect the S/PDIF on the Marantz is likely to be superior to a bog standard (without band-aid) USB connection direct from a SBT. And as I mentioned before, many are finding that installing a USB to S/PDIF converter from a PC gives better results than directly connecting the PC to the USB DAC which tells you something's going on.

However "Jittery" AirPlay is now bugging me more. I now need to find a way to stream Spotify to the Marantz without using the convenient but "jittery" AP plugin on the Marantz - anybody got any good ideas?
Click to expand...

If you have an Ipad then use the camera connection kit and plug usb to MDAC hard wired .. no airplay ! But this is bypassing the Marantz not what you are asking.

When I can't be bothered with my NetTop this is the method I use.
 
beammeup said:
Will do... I suspect the S/PDIF on the Marantz is likely to be superior to a bog standard (without band-aid) USB connection direct from a SBT. And as I mentioned before, many are finding that installing a USB to S/PDIF converter from a PC gives better results than directly connecting the PC to the USB DAC which tells you something's going on.

However "Jittery" AirPlay is now bugging me more. I now need to find a way to stream Spotify to the Marantz without using the convenient but "jittery" AP plugin on the Marantz - anybody got any good ideas?
Click to expand...
No offence but I feel you might be worrying too much about jitter, AirPlay may show relatively high jitter measurements, I don't know, but they would have to be ridiculously high to impact on sound quality, and I'd be very surprised if that were the case.

Why not try AirPlay and see for yourself if it's as "jittery" as some would have us believe?
 
beammeup said:
Any other recommendations? It would be good to buy something that's still being produced 'and' facilitates USB 'out'. I don't really want to go down the building a dedicated PC route. Just how good would a solidly built Marantz NA7004 sound for example (without enabling AP) as a high quality well built s/spdif transport with the MDAC? I am hoping at least that a well built transport/s/pdif will at least equal a Touch/USB out due to the very fact that the 7004 has better quality power supplies at least.
Click to expand...
did you consider solutions such as raspberry pi or similar?
I have seen at least one OS, similar to voyage-mpd that claims to make a pi an audiophile source (raspify.com).
Apparently they intend to port it to other ARM based boards, but could not find details about which yet.
I ve also seen similar things being done with cubox (http://cubox-i.com/) and arch-linux.
I ll certainly give it a try later this year.

Pierre
 
beammeup said:
Will do... I suspect the S/PDIF on the Marantz is likely to be superior to a bog standard (without band-aid) USB connection direct from a SBT. And as I mentioned before, many are finding that installing a USB to S/PDIF converter from a PC gives better results than directly connecting the PC to the USB DAC which tells you something's going on.

However "Jittery" AirPlay is now bugging me more. I now need to find a way to stream Spotify to the Marantz without using the convenient but "jittery" AP plugin on the Marantz - anybody got any good ideas?
Click to expand...
I use AEX in the following way: Airport Express (connected via ethernet to Zyxel PLA4211) >> SPDIF >> MDAC

Works pretty well. Sure, it's not perfect but the ethernet connection to the AEX makes a big difference. The beauty of it is, as you say, the convenience of being able to stream directly from your Apple devices.
 
I'm currently using a Wandboard (http://www.wandboard.org/) and running CommunitySqueeze on it (http://www.communitysqueeze.org/). It's still a BETA project, but the idea is that it will be an open source replacement for the SBT. The hardware costs around $100 USD here in the U.S. and you can output async USB to the MDAC.

IMHO the sound quality is as good as that of the SBT and you can run both the server and player components on the same hardware, and control it with your smartphone. It allows you to play Spotify with a simple plugin. It's an excellent solution for the price.
 
John MDAC sounding brilliant. Had to do quite a bit of swapping around to find out what worked best in the bypass mode But happy now with my phono pre through it.

The sound has lost that sibilant sound and now the bass heavy tendency has been run in and is tight now I am very pleased :) The speaker rebuild (connection loose and spades loose) also helped to get everything sounding peachy again.

Cheers

Mark
 
Now using Win.8, outputting thro. a USB 3 port with no issues (via JRiver 19)

In fact much improved.

Though I have gone against JW's advice and splashed out £8 on a USB cable :eek:

Belkin 'Gold' series, as opposed to a £3 generic USB Cert. one. (2 pair twisted 20gauge impedance matched,braid and foil sheild)
 
Hey steven,
I see you have the rega dac. How does it compare to the m-dac before and after the mods.

SQ, I also see you have the weiss 202. Could you also give a comparison to the m-dac?.
From history I think you preferred the weiss than the stock m-dac but with mods you do not miss the weiss?.

Thanks.
 
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