JohnW
pfm member
anubisgrau,
Hopefully not!!! while its true we don't have the Final PSU pricing, we have intention of increasing the price,
John
MDAC first listen (part II)
- Thread starter mark.king
- Start date
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anubisgrau,
Hopefully not!!! while its true we don't have the Final PSU pricing, we have intention of increasing the price,
John
mark.king
pfm Member
Just done a test. XBMC using WASAPI and FOOBAR using ASIO4ALL. It took all of about 5 seconds to realise FOOBAR with ASIO is far superia.
The reason behind the test was I would like to use one media player for all. XBMC doesn't do ASIO but has a great interface especially if your eyes are not too good!!!
Works great with Video and surround sound. So what does jriver offer that makes it worh paying for?
The reason behind the test was I would like to use one media player for all. XBMC doesn't do ASIO but has a great interface especially if your eyes are not too good!!!
Works great with Video and surround sound. So what does jriver offer that makes it worh paying for?
what i was asking to myself, and is quite funny if you think about it, is that ive bought the m-dac from a well know uk shop almost 3 months ago to have it at home for the end of november 2011 and while i havent it yet , several italian shops have it and you can buy it from them now...quite funny, isn't it?
John, do you mean you have no intention of increasing the price above?
JohnW
pfm member
What I wanted to say, is that the price for the MDAC HQ PSU (both options) is fixed - no price increases expected. Its our product and design - thus we have full control over the pricing.
John
JohnW
pfm member
It would be interesting to know if XBMC using WASAPI passes the MDAC's Bit perfect test - if it does (and also FOOBAR using ASIO4ALL) then the question that needs to be asked is why does one sound different from the other!
John
mark.king
pfm Member
I'll have a go at this next. I'm moving houses so the test are a bit erratic at the moment. I do seem to miss finer detail but the difference on initial tests was massive. Tried to get jriver working but no output so far. I'm put off by anything that doesn't work easely. Will have another go as soon as I can. Meanwhile Foobar with ASIO is my audio player of choice.
sleepysurf
Member
Unfortunately, that being the case (and presumably for the Squeezebox Touch mod as well), I guess I'll have to cancel my M-DAC pre-order. I was truly looking forward to the M-DAC + Touch (with upgrades) as my "dream" streaming audio solution. I truly hope you'll reconsider lining up a U.S. distributor/dealer for your future designs, as it would be a shame for those of us on "this side of the pond" to not be able to enjoy your creations. Best wishes for the LakeWest venture!
stellablues
pfm Member
Agreed John, I also hope you reconsider. Since I don't own my own business, I don't understand the issue with sticking a PSU in the mail to the US. if the PSU is reliable then I don't see how returns factors into the equation for you. It really becomes a decision for the purchaser to determine if its worth it to buy from over the pond knowing we might need to send it back if there is an issue. This is the same if I buy from Audio-gd or any other smaller manufacturer without stateside dealers.
Last month I preordered the MDAC site unseen (unheard) in some part because of your announcement that a PSU was going to be made available soon after the MDAC. Why would I want to purchase a DAC which I knew to be sub-optimal with no possibility of upgrading?
If this decision stands I will likely sell my MDAC whenever it arrives here in the states. Or try to get someone on this board to buy one for me and mail it to me? Anyone in europe want to start distributing to the US?
Thanks for your consideration.
Last month I preordered the MDAC site unseen (unheard) in some part because of your announcement that a PSU was going to be made available soon after the MDAC. Why would I want to purchase a DAC which I knew to be sub-optimal with no possibility of upgrading?
If this decision stands I will likely sell my MDAC whenever it arrives here in the states. Or try to get someone on this board to buy one for me and mail it to me? Anyone in europe want to start distributing to the US?
Thanks for your consideration.
JohnW
pfm member
Hi Betto,
Thank you for the feedback, a great start to the new year
The amplifiers will be launched soon after the PSU - I'd expect full shipping by June at the latest.
Let me know if your interested in the PSU as we are down to single numbers on the first shipment.
John
amershamman
pfm Member
"The amplifiers will be launched soon after the PSU"...are you producing an amplifier now John?
That would be interesting....
Chris
That would be interesting....
Chris
amershamman
pfm Member
What good news to start the New Year!
desp_erado
MDAC fan
Ok, here’s a very verbose review (apologies for the length!).
My search for a DAC started when my Marantz CD63mkII KI Signature CD player developed transport problems. I was mortified, as I loved this player…until I realised you could replace the transport for just £12 and did so! However this, combined with the work Cyrus and other manufacturers were doing around improving CD transports and the differences they made, I decided an upgrade could be an option! But, given the rise in media streamers and bit-accurate ripping software, was a new CD player the way to go? If the CD transport in a player is such a weak link, why not use a less error prone method of extracting the CD data?
So, I decided to rip all my CDs to a hard disk as I knew it would take a while and in parallel, look for a network music streamer. I ripped everything to FLAC (loss-less) to my NAS via dbpoweramp, which is a must-have app for anyone ripping CDs, it’s bit accurate and also has a database of other users’ CRC check codes to ensure what you have ripped is good.
Someone lent me a Sonos ZP90 and I was hooked. The iPhone, Android and especially the iPad app for it were fantastic, SO easy to use and instantly responsive. Functionality aside (having all my music at my fingertips), comparing it to the KI CD player was interesting. The Sonos sounded good, bags of detail and sounded technically better than the KI CD which “missed” things in comparison. However, the KI CD, despite not giving as much in some areas, vastly made up for it in warmth and depth…and could make the hair stand up on the back of my neck, which the Sonos couldn’t. My girlfriend always said she’d prefer to listen to the KI CD.
So, I wasn’t there yet, but what was clear, not just a good “transport” makes the difference, it had to be the DACs in the KI CD being better than the Sonos ones. So, a DAC was the next option.
I looked at the Arcam rDAC, but was prepared to pay more. At the time there was the Rega DAC and the Audiolab M-DAC had just got an excellent review in WHF. I went to trial the M-DAC, but no one had it, instead I borrowed the Rega DAC for an evening. I didn’t have it long, but it showed me a new DAC was the way forward, it VASTLY improved the Sonos’ sound. But, for £100 more, I could get the M-DAC which had more features than the Rega DAC and also matched my existing Audiolab kit. So, I decided to wait and last month I managed to persuade my local hi fi shop to sell their single M-DAC demo unit to me when it arrived, instead of keeping it in the shop.
After about a week of burn in, it settled down and now sounds stunning. The Sonos through the M-DAC now sounds better than any other combination. Vocals are full and rich, bass is extremely deep, but so controlled. The sound-staging is wide and encompassing. You can hear fingers on guitar strings, pianos echo through the room and the detail in drums, especially hi-hats just makes you grin from cheek to cheek. I think someone else made a perfect comment on another review which I am going to echo here. Other DACs bring one instrument out which you can hear throughout the music, the M-DAC brings out every instrument. Ultimately, it manages to give you everything, whilst still sounding musical and integrated. I’ve landed on Optimal Transient XD as the filter as it seems to sound “fuller” than the others. Minimum Phase was also the other filter I liked, that gives you EVERYTHING, but can sound a bit un-natural in some recordings (to my ears).
I also have my AV receiver inputs going into it to be re-clocked and de-jittered. This has made a difference to them too – I really wasn’t expecting this!
I have still yet to try it in pre-amp mode, namely due to the dependence on my single analogue input for the Surround Processor. I have also tried USB and foobar, but kept getting a bit of drop out, this could be due to my long (and probably not USB 2.0 compatible) cable though.
So, in summary, a cracking product, well worth the wait and I am very much looking forward to the HQ power supply and the source re-naming coming along in a future firmware upgrade!
I have a couple of questions, John, if you get a second:
1) My Sonos output frequency varies plus/minus 5Hz, whereas the KI CD doesn’t vary at all. There are some modifications you can get to the digital output stage of the Sonos, do you think these would “cure” this, or is it too insignificant to bother?
2) Will the HQ PSU mean I can finally do away with the Audiolab pre-amp as it has an analogue pass-through as a selected input? (I think you have me on your list of pre-orders?).
3) Where can you download the bit-perfect files from?
My search for a DAC started when my Marantz CD63mkII KI Signature CD player developed transport problems. I was mortified, as I loved this player…until I realised you could replace the transport for just £12 and did so! However this, combined with the work Cyrus and other manufacturers were doing around improving CD transports and the differences they made, I decided an upgrade could be an option! But, given the rise in media streamers and bit-accurate ripping software, was a new CD player the way to go? If the CD transport in a player is such a weak link, why not use a less error prone method of extracting the CD data?
So, I decided to rip all my CDs to a hard disk as I knew it would take a while and in parallel, look for a network music streamer. I ripped everything to FLAC (loss-less) to my NAS via dbpoweramp, which is a must-have app for anyone ripping CDs, it’s bit accurate and also has a database of other users’ CRC check codes to ensure what you have ripped is good.
Someone lent me a Sonos ZP90 and I was hooked. The iPhone, Android and especially the iPad app for it were fantastic, SO easy to use and instantly responsive. Functionality aside (having all my music at my fingertips), comparing it to the KI CD player was interesting. The Sonos sounded good, bags of detail and sounded technically better than the KI CD which “missed” things in comparison. However, the KI CD, despite not giving as much in some areas, vastly made up for it in warmth and depth…and could make the hair stand up on the back of my neck, which the Sonos couldn’t. My girlfriend always said she’d prefer to listen to the KI CD.
So, I wasn’t there yet, but what was clear, not just a good “transport” makes the difference, it had to be the DACs in the KI CD being better than the Sonos ones. So, a DAC was the next option.
I looked at the Arcam rDAC, but was prepared to pay more. At the time there was the Rega DAC and the Audiolab M-DAC had just got an excellent review in WHF. I went to trial the M-DAC, but no one had it, instead I borrowed the Rega DAC for an evening. I didn’t have it long, but it showed me a new DAC was the way forward, it VASTLY improved the Sonos’ sound. But, for £100 more, I could get the M-DAC which had more features than the Rega DAC and also matched my existing Audiolab kit. So, I decided to wait and last month I managed to persuade my local hi fi shop to sell their single M-DAC demo unit to me when it arrived, instead of keeping it in the shop.
After about a week of burn in, it settled down and now sounds stunning. The Sonos through the M-DAC now sounds better than any other combination. Vocals are full and rich, bass is extremely deep, but so controlled. The sound-staging is wide and encompassing. You can hear fingers on guitar strings, pianos echo through the room and the detail in drums, especially hi-hats just makes you grin from cheek to cheek. I think someone else made a perfect comment on another review which I am going to echo here. Other DACs bring one instrument out which you can hear throughout the music, the M-DAC brings out every instrument. Ultimately, it manages to give you everything, whilst still sounding musical and integrated. I’ve landed on Optimal Transient XD as the filter as it seems to sound “fuller” than the others. Minimum Phase was also the other filter I liked, that gives you EVERYTHING, but can sound a bit un-natural in some recordings (to my ears).
I also have my AV receiver inputs going into it to be re-clocked and de-jittered. This has made a difference to them too – I really wasn’t expecting this!
I have still yet to try it in pre-amp mode, namely due to the dependence on my single analogue input for the Surround Processor. I have also tried USB and foobar, but kept getting a bit of drop out, this could be due to my long (and probably not USB 2.0 compatible) cable though.
So, in summary, a cracking product, well worth the wait and I am very much looking forward to the HQ power supply and the source re-naming coming along in a future firmware upgrade!
I have a couple of questions, John, if you get a second:
1) My Sonos output frequency varies plus/minus 5Hz, whereas the KI CD doesn’t vary at all. There are some modifications you can get to the digital output stage of the Sonos, do you think these would “cure” this, or is it too insignificant to bother?
2) Will the HQ PSU mean I can finally do away with the Audiolab pre-amp as it has an analogue pass-through as a selected input? (I think you have me on your list of pre-orders?).
3) Where can you download the bit-perfect files from?
finesensations
pfm Member
Hi arthur
I notice you have pre-ordered the power amps JohnW is planning to launch later this year.
Where did you get the amp details as I can't find anything on them?
Not looking for a new amp just yet but if JohnW is producing it I may be interest at some future date so would appreciate seeing some basic details.
Snap, i'll be looking to upgrade my integrated amp to a power amp in a year or so but want to keep the option of having a sub & also be able to run 2 sets of stereo speakers off the amp
Hi cooky,
An interesting comparison to me since I also had BM DAC1 prior to MDAC. Are you feeding the DACs with 44.1 kHz material only or tried higher sample rates too?
My perception with the BM dac was that it was much affected by the sample rate it was fed. At 44.1 kHz I was hearing distortion products which made the sound unnatural and bright in my system (2 x 3m of microphone cable feeding pair of active speakers). At 48 kHz the effect was reduced, sound was quite pleasing in deed, some aspects of it a bit exaggerated. At 68 kHz the backgound became "black" and overall presentation felt much more natural than at 44.1 kHz. In practise, when using computer (Mac) source it let it convert all material to 68 kHz.
I interprete that this to do with the asynchronous (aritrary) sample rate conversion applied in DAC1. There are actually white papers to be found which explain that while being able to provide excellent jitter rejection, AASCR can introduce distortion and noise into the signal.
This is of course not to say you should not like the BM sound, it is a lot to do with the rest of the system and personal taste and goal. I also have AKG phones now but unfortunately didn't have a chance to try them with DAC1 so cannot comment on the headphone outputs between DAC1 and MDAC.
With MDAC I am perceiving the black background regardless of sample rate of the source. As I've read somewhere in the "at last ... " thread, the ESS chip incorporates something special for doing the sample rate conversion, plus there is a bunch of means to cope with jitter of incoming data built into MDAC.
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