MDAC First Listen (part 00110111)

[iHaveNoNaim]

Yes. I would be perfectly happy to contribute a pro rata share of the cost of the PnP line in return for an agreed delivery date for the existing products. I do not accept that it is reasonable to increase the cost of paying for the Mdac2 or detox by any more than than pro rata share reflecting a cost of production. I think this is equally unreasonable whether you don't want a streamer, can't afford any more expense or don't fancy investing any more in an overdue product.

Unless an external manufacturer is in fact manufacturing the product (fine by me- they can provide a guaranteed delivery date) then the theoretical cost of manufacturing that way is not the cost of production.

Given that no one actually wants the streamer module (if they want it at all) before they get the Mdac 2, you have to ask yourself the question, why is the streamer module being manufactured before the Mdac2 or indeed the detox?

I don't want a streamer I do however want my much delayed Detox and MDAC2, I feel that I'm being penalised for having a setup which has served me well for many years and doesn't require a streamer. Unless of course someone could enlighten me into how I can benefit from a streamer when I play everything through a PC running 'Dirac live' (Tidal for streaming, media monkey for ripped CDs, iPlayer, Netflix) which does room correction before the MDAC. As I understand it I won't be able to perform this room correction playing through the streamer.

 

[jansen]

Hi John,
I've just paid for the mdac2 streamer pcb. Please hold it for direct mounting into my salvaged mdac. The pcb is looking great to me.
Take care.

 

[Nick1881]

I'm in for MDAC2, I'm not sure if the streamer was originally part of that. I don't really have a need for a streamer as I play music from JRiver on my PC connected via USB to MDAC, I'm very happy with this setup. I played with a RPi as a streamer but didn't get on with it, except for Roon which is far too expensive.

I'd be happy to have a streamer if it came as standard as part of FDAC or whatever however it's not something I really want to pay extra for and also if I did use it then it would make the Detox pointless, right?

I thought the Detox was complete a long time ago, I'm happy to pay more to fund P&P machine for Detox or MDAC but have reservations about a streamer which I probably don't need.

A must have option for me is AV Bypass and as far as I know MDAC can have AV Bypass, without it I'd also have to fund a pre-amp with AV Bypass function.

 

[Eeerni]

John,
just ordered two of the streamer boards.
Hope to be able to meet you at the Munich Show.

Best regards
Erwin

 

[JohnW]

John
My audio chain is like this:
Source > 2 x miniDSP OpenDRC DI units > 2 x stereo DACs > 4 channel Bruno Putzey volume controller > 4 x monoblock power amps > speakers

The miniDSP units perform crossover duties. They only have Toslink / RCA SPDIF /XLR AES EBU inputs. Is there any way the streamer could act as a source for them (given that it only has USB outputs as I understand it) ?

Ian,

You can access the data from the streamer via the MDAC2 SPDIF outputs - but this is limited to a max of 192KHz and you would not gain the benefit of Jitter free interface - but such is your current set-up.

 

[JohnW]

John,
just ordered two of the streamer boards.
Hope to be able to meet you at the Munich Show.

Best regards
Erwin

Erwin, Thank you

It be great to met you this year - I've just returned back from collecting the bare PCB's, so you can guess what we will be doing this weekend!

Recently I purchased a decent stereo Microscope and looking at the pad sizes and pitch on these PCB's I'm very glad I did!

I'll have the first PCB with me at Munich.

With the Streamer modules 24bit RGB interface we will try interfacing your LCD panels I have here - then we can ship a kit with working panel so you can play with the Streamer board

We are going to have to arrange a meeting point / time for all fellow PFM'ers meeting at Munich if we don't meet randomly before - I'd really like to have proper get together!

 

[highfi]

Just invested in a streamer board (see http://mdac2.lakewestaudio.com/mdac2_streamer.htm) to support the cause!

 

[iansr]

Ian,

You can access the data from the streamer via the MDAC2 SPDIF outputs - but this is limited to a max of 192KHz and you would not gain the benefit of Jitter free interface - but such is your current set-up.

John
No that wouldn't work for me because the audio signal needs to be processed by the DSP units before going into the DACs. So the streamer is only of potential use to me if it can be used as a stand alone unit feeding the DSP units. Hence why I was referring to the outputs of streamer / inputs of the DSP units.

 

[JohnW]

Rune, Eddie, Janson, Erwin, highfi (and everyone else who has paid for the streamer) - thank you

We will post pictures of the PCB as its being built up over the weekend

 

[JohnW]

John
No that wouldn't work for me because the audio signal needs to be processed by the DSP units before going into the DACs. So the streamer is only of potential use to me if it can be used as a stand alone unit feeding the DSP units. Hence why I was referring to the outputs of streamer / inputs of the DSP units.

Ian,

I can design the Streamer operation so that its output is fed out via the MDAC2's SPDIF output, and the processed signal can be fed back via SPDIF - like a tape monitor loop...

 

[JohnW]

but I do still want the AV bypass, and from what I remember there wasn't room for both inside the MDAC case.

Bob,

The streamer board does not effect the AV bypass - AV bypass is offered as an option on MDAC2, in fact the AV bypass signal routing has already been designed on the MDAC2 PCB.

AV bypass is exchanged for the ADC input when the ADC board is fitted - but this is NOT related to the streamer option in any way.

 

[iansr]

Ian,

I can design the Streamer operation so that its output is fed out via the MDAC2's SPDIF output, and the processed signal can be fed back via SPDIF - like a tape monitor loop...

Ah OK that sounds like it would work.

 

[Stuart Frazer]

I am no expert, I’m still trying to get my head around a lot of this myself. However, I will try and help you as I best understand (others can put me right if I’m wrong):

So, the MDAC streamer board, what does it give me? My choices are:

It'll run LMS with my music attached to it by USB hard drive. This is fine but I then don't get my music backed up to my Home Server. This will make my Transporter and RPi redundant and there is no need to use a Detox.

Yes it can, but it’s probably not the best way to utilise it in your situation.

It'll run LMS but I leave the music on the Home Server and the MDAC streamer pulls the music from the Home Server so the music can still be backed up. This will also make my Transporter and RPi redundant and there is no need to use a Detox.

I would have thought it best to run LMS on the Home Server and let the MDAC2 Streamer pull the music that way. That way you reduce your box count – maybe sell the Transporter and RPi. John sums up the Streamer board advantage in this:

What ever might be lost by any potential RF effects will be made up x1000 times by having the Data source locked to the Audio Master clock - something that's not possible with an external CD transport.

There will be internal screening, clock synchronisation and "Detoxing" so I'm not concerned in the least

I’m seriously thinking of going for the streamer myself. I have the following questions if anyone can help:

I presume it fits inside an MDAC case?

Will the optional DEVDAC development PCB also fit inside?

If we fit an optional DEVDAC development PCB what is left of the original MDAC PCB?

Are these board going to be easy to DIY fit or will our MDACs have to be shipped out to JohnW?

 

[iansr]

So a question for those on here who are knowledgeable about the programming of the streamer; is it reasonable to assume that the streamer will be able to support Tidal streaming?

 

[EIffel]

I’m seriously thinking of going for the streamer myself. I have the following questions if anyone can help:

I presume it fits inside an MDAC case?

Will the optional DEVDAC development PCB also fit inside?

If we fit an optional DEVDAC development PCB what is left of the original MDAC PCB?

Are these board going to be easy to DIY fit or will our MDACs have to be shipped out to JohnW?

The streamer will fit in the MDAC case, with the MDAC2 board. The DEVDAC will not... it can be used without a case, or with a custom one which people will have to design.

I understand that the intent is that users could install themselves the MDAC2 and MDAC2 + Streamer into the MDAC case (skills may be needed to "crack open" the box, but old posts stated that the tools to do so will be included if needed)

 

[hluga]

JohnW

I just paid for the streamer but i want the "naked small dac" option. I think there will be an additional payment later right ?

Also you have to clarify the requested PSU for both products (and expected costs)

Bests

 

[timola]

Just About to collect the streamer PCB's - we just created and uploaded a very crude MDAC2 Streamer page:-

http://mdac2.lakewestaudio.com/mdac2_streamer.htm

Looking forward to seeing the boards

Hi John, I just paid for one MDAC2 Streamer PCB .... Thanks John, please remember I would like this shipped with MDAC2 PCB complete package with the VR-PSU when it's ready.

I think this makes at least half a dozen orders already!....on the first day....come on guys lets get this P&P robot ordered, the sooner we do the sooner we get our best toys.....

 

[timola]

I play everything through a PC running 'Dirac live' (Tidal for streaming, media monkey for ripped CDs, iPlayer, Netflix) which does room correction before the MDAC. As I understand it I won't be able to perform this room correction playing through the streamer.

I use Dirac Live too....its excellent! I can't see any way to use this via the Streamer as Dirac Live needs a serious CPU in a good PC/MAC.

I won't be using the Streamer for streaming audio either, well not in my main system. I will be using the Streamer like John suggested to play YouTube videos and movie playback (but even that, my TV does really well at the moment connected to my MDAC via toslink) but when I eventually get a TDAC the MDAC2 will be relegated to my second system where I may setup the Streamer as it was designed...and hopefuly work out how too by then!

I just want to help John get the P&P robot in place so the production of the various projects is not bottle-necked by PCB production issues....bring on the Detox and MDAC2....

 

[Rune]

So a question for those on here who are knowledgeable about the programming of the streamer; is it reasonable to assume that the streamer will be able to support Tidal streaming?

The short answer is Yes
And the log is that there are several ways to stream tidal with the streamer depending on the software you choose.

The absolute best is RoonBridge. But then you need to have the RoonCore running on another Server/computer.
Roon can do volume levering, different DSP function like Parametric EQ and up-sampling to PCM/DSD if that is your thing. And it has the absolute best UI on iOS, Android, OS X and Windows.

It is best to separate the streamer from the server because then you don't have to worry about audiophile OS tweaks or special hardware.

All the heavy processing is done on the server and all the streamer has to do is receive raw PCM/DSD stream and send it to the DAC.

You can also use LMS with squeezelite if fee software is important. You can even run LMS on the streamer if you want, but it is better to separate the two.
There is also all the flavors of mpd volumio etc which I think also can do tidal (not sure). But they all break the rule of separation the server processiong from the streamer.
I used LMS and squeezebox devices for many years. But have switched to Roon.

I recently bought a UMICk-1 to play with room correction in Roon havent got arond to it. But it is still on my to do list to learn how to use REW.

 

[Rune]

I use Dirac Live too....its excellent! I can't see anyway to use this via the Streamer as Dirac Live needs a serious CPU in a good PC/MAC.

You could consider Roon