MDAC First Listen (part 00110010)
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JohnW
pfm member
Just collected the Clock PCB's:-
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/86116171/Clock PCB.jpg
Just going to the Mountains to celebrate Renata's Birthday on the 29th - but I will be back tomorrow evening then I'll start work on testing the clock board.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/86116171/Clock PCB.jpg
Just going to the Mountains to celebrate Renata's Birthday on the 29th - but I will be back tomorrow evening then I'll start work on testing the clock board.
Richard Kimber
pfm Member
Mini xlr iirc
JohnW
pfm member
Depends which version but:-
2 Channel DAC DIC:- 2x XLR
4 Channel DAC DIC:- 4x XLR
DAC + HDMI Input DIC:- 2x XLR & 3x HDMI
Oh yes - looking more closely at the rear panel http://www.pinkfishmedia.net/forum/showpost.php?p=2917763&postcount=781 I should have spotted them as standard xlr
I did not RC
davidismynaim
pfm Member
sorry if I have missed this re FDAC...I have two inputs, USB Digital from Squeezebox touch streaming and MM vinyl from Mitchell Gyro Dec TT. I am thinking of using 300b SET mono blocks into Impulse H2's. Trying to figure out if I will need a pre-amp. I would like to keep things simple, I intend to go with the FDAC L3 MM/MC config. Looking at spec and rear connections, will I need to wire up my arm cable to XLR? if so any tips on this? Also is the volume all controlled in the digital domain? or is there analog gain control somewhere in this setup...comments and help would be appreciated.
david, with the FDAC L3 MM/MC, you shouldn't need a pre-amp (unless you want one, for some reason).
Your arm cable will need an adapter from RCA to XLR or, alternatively, you may be able to rewire you arm for balanced operation (I'm afraid I don't have the details for this at hand).
Volume on the FDAC will be all controlled in the digital domain (safe for, IIRC, a 20dB attenuator which may be switched on or off automatically).
Your arm cable will need an adapter from RCA to XLR or, alternatively, you may be able to rewire you arm for balanced operation (I'm afraid I don't have the details for this at hand).
Volume on the FDAC will be all controlled in the digital domain (safe for, IIRC, a 20dB attenuator which may be switched on or off automatically).
Advantages to true balanced operation are many, so check with the manufacturer if your arm can be rewired for balanced and if this is supported by your cartridge (I believe all moving coil cartridges are by definition balanced, but moving magnet are not).
Impulse H2's lucky you I'm jealous great speakers they really need a good moving coil MM just not good enough, the L3 will have a MM/MC stage so no need for a preamp connect direct.I would wait for John to explain how the balanced input is configured there is more than 1 way to do this.I run a balanced arm cable based on Morgan Jone's suggestions in his book i.e. a balanced cable with a twisted pair inside a shield,each pair is the coil and the shield goes to arm earth and MC stage earth.
iansr
pfm Member
John
I've exchanged some emails with Jan about this and he thinks he can increase the output current of the 15-0-15v supply. How many amps would be required?
( I like the option of being able to get off the grid.)
https://linearaudio.nl/silentswitcher
I've exchanged some emails with Jan about this and he thinks he can increase the output current of the 15-0-15v supply. How many amps would be required?
( I like the option of being able to get off the grid.)
https://linearaudio.nl/silentswitcher
davidismynaim
pfm Member
Thanks the H2's are amazing, really enjoying them. Looking forward to trying with 300b SETs I am listening with a view to buy a pair of mono blocks tomorrow from another H2 owner!
I am using a Shure VST with JICO replacement stylus. sounds pretty good to me, but maybe when we all have our FDACs I will explore MC. I listen to 75% digital though, so I may find I am happy with the MM.
Currently listening to Tears Run Dry - Malia on Convergence, sounds amazing
davidismynaim
pfm Member
John, sorry to be a pain, but I have lost track of payments. I think I have made £400 so far, assuming I am going for L3 - MC/MM are you expecting more at this point in the development process?
JohnW
pfm member
Ian,
For what do you need the PSU for - the MDAC?
I REALLY dont recommend unsynchronised switcher anywhere near the MDAC/ FDAC etc.
On our small XMOS DAC we synchronise the switchers (XMOS Core Voltage, OLED panel Step-up supply & negative Audio supply) to the Audio Master clock....
JohnW
pfm member
Dave,
Expected cost of the L3 MM /MC is £1,430 excluding shipping, Import duty & VAT (minus the GBP400 development fees).
We will have the ADC / Phono section prototype by the end of Sept.
DANOFDANGER
pfm Member
For anyone whos interested, a little comparison how the Vega is against the Mdac. Now i exclusively listened to the vega when i first got it too familiarize myself with it.
So i chose a comfortable listening volume on the vega (-23db) and prepared to level match as close as possible using gain loss mathematics (using online calculators because i suck at math).
Assuming that product specifications are fairly accurate i calculated the Vegas 4V RMS with -23db gain loss at 0.283v. Using that voltage as a reference i was able to calculate what i needed for the Mdac to get a hopefully approximate matched output. Mdacs 2.25v RMS calculated with -18db gain loss came at exactly 0.283. So because the RMS voltage difference is not quite double, it doesnt have the 6db difference you would expect with exactly double. So 5db gain difference seemed about right mathematically and also sounded it too. If its out by 1db i dont think it would matter.
If anyone could confirm this thatd be great, i understand it might not be as effective as proper level matching with microphones but its the next best thing i should think ?.
On to the comparison.
I used the album face value from phil collins (love him) and was a great piece for comparison.
I wont go into great depth as i do not know how to describe details of musical performace as well as others. I find that individual instruments however are easy for me to detail and describe.
I flipped back and forth between dacs after listening to a few tracks so it could imprint in my memory as best as possible. With each song (i chose four) i made notes of details to look for when switching back and forth, making sure to focus as much as possible on every instrument and details that stood out. After doing this quite a few times making sure to double check my opinions i come up with what i think.
Firstly, the Mdac is stellar for its price range. I applaude JohnW for his passion and integrity for creating something that not only sounds good but also applys state of the art designs with great measureable performance. As time has progressed i find myself in love with not only the fidelity of music but also the technology behind it all. I enjoy the journey of both equally.
When listening to the Vega i found it has impressive details and resolution in instruments. Drum kits for example had much greater detail in their individual presentation between eachother. The cymbals were beautiful and natural with absolutely no fatigue attributes at all. The snare was punchy and precise that i felt i could hear the bounce effect with more detail. The tom drums were great and with the tracks that had the bongo drums were smooth and clear. The hi hats were just as clear and impacting, especially when clashed and you hear that shatter between. Very satisfying. The kickdrum was good but i felt it wasnt as punchy perhaps as the mdac.
The vega also did great with saxophones and trumpets, their powerful tonal character is almost euphoric. Something that the mdac just couldn't do well for me.
Singers voices are very smooth and less fatiguing but the mdac was by no means harsh at all so it only added to what it did well on. The voices came through clear and powerfull with absolute great separation between singers, detailing the singers individually more precisely. This gave a greater impact when singers harmonized with eachother and filled the space between them.
Bass guitars and guitars were clean with good texture, not a huge improvement over the mdac but nice enough to notice.
Channel separation was another surprise, it presented very great left and right channel detatchment that made me look around thinking the sound was from outside my system because iv never known such distinctions before.
Overall it does what the mdac did so well at and just improved upon it. If i was to sum up character differences and some of the pros and cons it would be something like this.
The Vega potrays very well detailed instruments with great channel separation and balance. Voices are clear and sweet with profound segragation between singers. It does not appear to favor or color the sound but produce rich and dynamic sound. Where it appears to perhaps fall short on that the mdac does well at, is the lower octave instruments such as bass guitar and kick drums. Its not as punchy and there seems to be less differentiation between the notes played.
If i had to put a percentage difference between the two, id say the vega is 30-40 percent better in most aspects.
Im hoping to get a XLR TO RCA adapter for the vega which could improve the lower octave resolution as the RCA has a slightly modified output stage that aparently impairs its total potential.
I cant wait for thr Fdac ^.^ Hope this is entertaining for some people, tried to be as detailed as possible but as things go its very difficult sometimes.
So i chose a comfortable listening volume on the vega (-23db) and prepared to level match as close as possible using gain loss mathematics (using online calculators because i suck at math).
Assuming that product specifications are fairly accurate i calculated the Vegas 4V RMS with -23db gain loss at 0.283v. Using that voltage as a reference i was able to calculate what i needed for the Mdac to get a hopefully approximate matched output. Mdacs 2.25v RMS calculated with -18db gain loss came at exactly 0.283. So because the RMS voltage difference is not quite double, it doesnt have the 6db difference you would expect with exactly double. So 5db gain difference seemed about right mathematically and also sounded it too. If its out by 1db i dont think it would matter.
If anyone could confirm this thatd be great, i understand it might not be as effective as proper level matching with microphones but its the next best thing i should think ?.
On to the comparison.
I used the album face value from phil collins (love him) and was a great piece for comparison.
I wont go into great depth as i do not know how to describe details of musical performace as well as others. I find that individual instruments however are easy for me to detail and describe.
I flipped back and forth between dacs after listening to a few tracks so it could imprint in my memory as best as possible. With each song (i chose four) i made notes of details to look for when switching back and forth, making sure to focus as much as possible on every instrument and details that stood out. After doing this quite a few times making sure to double check my opinions i come up with what i think.
Firstly, the Mdac is stellar for its price range. I applaude JohnW for his passion and integrity for creating something that not only sounds good but also applys state of the art designs with great measureable performance. As time has progressed i find myself in love with not only the fidelity of music but also the technology behind it all. I enjoy the journey of both equally.
When listening to the Vega i found it has impressive details and resolution in instruments. Drum kits for example had much greater detail in their individual presentation between eachother. The cymbals were beautiful and natural with absolutely no fatigue attributes at all. The snare was punchy and precise that i felt i could hear the bounce effect with more detail. The tom drums were great and with the tracks that had the bongo drums were smooth and clear. The hi hats were just as clear and impacting, especially when clashed and you hear that shatter between. Very satisfying. The kickdrum was good but i felt it wasnt as punchy perhaps as the mdac.
The vega also did great with saxophones and trumpets, their powerful tonal character is almost euphoric. Something that the mdac just couldn't do well for me.
Singers voices are very smooth and less fatiguing but the mdac was by no means harsh at all so it only added to what it did well on. The voices came through clear and powerfull with absolute great separation between singers, detailing the singers individually more precisely. This gave a greater impact when singers harmonized with eachother and filled the space between them.
Bass guitars and guitars were clean with good texture, not a huge improvement over the mdac but nice enough to notice.
Channel separation was another surprise, it presented very great left and right channel detatchment that made me look around thinking the sound was from outside my system because iv never known such distinctions before.
Overall it does what the mdac did so well at and just improved upon it. If i was to sum up character differences and some of the pros and cons it would be something like this.
The Vega potrays very well detailed instruments with great channel separation and balance. Voices are clear and sweet with profound segragation between singers. It does not appear to favor or color the sound but produce rich and dynamic sound. Where it appears to perhaps fall short on that the mdac does well at, is the lower octave instruments such as bass guitar and kick drums. Its not as punchy and there seems to be less differentiation between the notes played.
If i had to put a percentage difference between the two, id say the vega is 30-40 percent better in most aspects.
Im hoping to get a XLR TO RCA adapter for the vega which could improve the lower octave resolution as the RCA has a slightly modified output stage that aparently impairs its total potential.
I cant wait for thr Fdac ^.^ Hope this is entertaining for some people, tried to be as detailed as possible but as things go its very difficult sometimes.
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