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Master’s Degree

PhilofCas

PhilofCas

pfm Member
Hello all,

just hoping for some thoughts, advice, experience, with regards a Master’s degree.

My son is considering his options, he has first class honours degree, has spent nearly two years in full time employment and is now thinking of a return to studies to do a Master’s.

Any help/guidance would be gratefully received.

Thank you.
 
I guess it very much depends on what he wants to do post-Masters. I did mine post-retirement, and thoroughly enjoyed it, but it was in a purely academic subject, and I'm not sure what I would have gained from it had I still been young and seeking employment. A more 'vocational' subject might of course be very useful; our younger daughter is doing a libraries-based MA and hopes to follow a career in that environment. Our elder daughter did an MA and then a PhD in English and is now a university lecturer, but I'm not sure her MA would have given her any advantage in a mainstream occupation.

Might it be possible for your son to do the MA part-time over two years and continue in employment? That would a) help fund his studies and b) mean that he wouldn't need to re-enter the jobs market after a year's absence.
 
One of my sons worked for a couple years after getting his BA, but found the job market tough. He then decided to do a one year full time MA course, (after consulting me for some financial assistance) and he hasn't looked back since.

They (UEA) did try and talk him into staying on and doing a PhD, but he was worried about going down the "full time student" rabbit hole.
 
PhilofCas said:
Hello all,

just hoping for some thoughts, advice, experience, with regards a Master’s degree.

My son is considering his options, he has first class honours degree, has spent nearly two years in full time employment and is now thinking of a return to studies to do a Master’s.

Any help/guidance would be gratefully received.

Thank you.
Click to expand...

I have two masters degrees, and they were very different experiences. One is from Oxford University, Oriel, it was fabulous because the environment was intellectually lively and supportive, I was given no end of help and stimulation by some of the most interesting people working in the field. The other was from Imperial College in London and it was horrible. My tutor didn’t want to know, he was too busy running an international research career. I was basically more or less left to my own devices, to sink or swim basically. I didn’t sink, but only just!

Both were by thesis and examination.

The moral for me is that a masters can be a fabulous experience but it depends where you do it - he should try to suss out the culture of the university before signing up.
 
I think it will come down to some fundamental choices and decisions. If your son wants to return to academia, and to pursue an academic career, a master’s degree, or possibly a PhD, will probably be needed, although this will depend on the subject, and the specific area he wants to study. If he sees this is a break from his current employment, with a return to that (or something else), different factors apply. Does he want to study at the university where he obtained his bachelor degree, or somewhere else? And how would it be funded? Has he continued to keep up with developments in his field, or will the return to study be a change from his current lifestyle?

My son has just finished the first year of a 4 year PhD, in a highly specialised area. I don’t think he has yet fully decided whether he wants an academic career, or something else, but he does have to work hard and apply himself to it. As he is developing a new theory, there is a lot of risk and ambiguity about where the research might go, and it is constantly on his mind. Perhaps not entirely what he was expecting when he embarked on this.

Edit - just read mandryka's post above. Both my children went to Imperial (and my son is still there) - and have found it to be a very rewarding place to study. I think the key point is to make sure that whoever the sponsor of the master's or PhD is, will be engaged and provide intellectual guidance, mentoring and other support. I think this depends more on the individual sponsor than the university, and also whether the research is part of a larger team, or individual.
 
PhilofCas said:
Hello all,

just hoping for some thoughts, advice, experience, with regards a Master’s degree.

My son is considering his options, he has first class honours degree, has spent nearly two years in full time employment and is now thinking of a return to studies to do a Master’s.

Any help/guidance would be gratefully received.

Thank you.
Click to expand...

He'll need to move quickly, Masters degrees are in very high demand since the graduate job market has dried up.
 
Joe Hutch said:
I guess it very much depends on what he wants to do post-Masters. I did mine post-retirement, and thoroughly enjoyed it, but it was in a purely academic subject, and I'm not sure what I would have gained from it had I still been young and seeking employment. A more 'vocational' subject might of course be very useful; our younger daughter is doing a libraries-based MA and hopes to follow a career in that environment. Our elder daughter did an MA and then a PhD in English and is now a university lecturer, but I'm not sure her MA would have given her any advantage in a mainstream occupation.

Might it be possible for your son to do the MA part-time over two years and continue in employment? That would a) help fund his studies and b) mean that he wouldn't need to re-enter the jobs market after a year's absence.
Click to expand...

Thanks Joe, food for thought regarding the part time study, money is certainly a factor, he’s earning decent money now, which he’s enjoying after 4 years of Uni life of having no money. There’s also the added monies going onto his existing student loan, though I think this is largely academic as it’d probably not be paid off even at the current level and gets zeroed after 30 years.

For clarity, he’s certain to change jobs now, he doesn’t like his current job, and also moving to Manchester to live/study.
 
mandryka said:
I have two masters degrees, and they were very different experiences. One is from Oxford University, Oriel, it was fabulous because the environment was intellectually lively and supportive, I was given no end of help and stimulation by some of the most interesting people working in the field. The other was from Imperial College in London and it was horrible. My tutor didn’t want to know, he was too busy running an international research career. I was basically more or less left to my own devices, to sink or swim basically. I didn’t sink, but only just!

Both were by thesis and examination.

The moral for me is that a masters can be a fabulous experience but it depends where you do it - he should try to suss out the culture of the university before signing up.
Click to expand...

Part of his thinking of doing a Master’s is that he really liked studying and felt a bit short changed with his Uni experience, so good point regarding your two experiences, it’s obviously not guaranteed to give you what you think it will.
 
It depends on whether the industry he wants to work in values them. It does open up doors outside the UK as higher degrees are valued more elsewhere. I work for an Austrian company and we have two people working on Masters and two on PhDs who work part time for us during their studies.
 
Tantris said:
I think it will come down to some fundamental choices and decisions. If your son wants to return to academia, and to pursue an academic career, a master’s degree, or possibly a PhD, will probably be needed, although this will depend on the subject, and the specific area he wants to study. If he sees this is a break from his current employment, with a return to that (or something else), different factors apply. Does he want to study at the university where he obtained his bachelor degree, or somewhere else? And how would it be funded? Has he continued to keep up with developments in his field, or will the return to study be a change from his current lifestyle?

My son has just finished the first year of a 4 year PhD, in a highly specialised area. I don’t think he has yet fully decided whether he wants an academic career, or something else, but he does have to work hard and apply himself to it. As he is developing a new theory, there is a lot of risk and ambiguity about where the research might go, and it is constantly on his mind. Perhaps not entirely what he was expecting when he embarked on this.

Edit - just read mandryka's post above. Both my children went to Imperial (and my son is still there) - and have found it to be a very rewarding place to study. I think the key point is to make sure that whoever the sponsor of the master's or PhD is, will be engaged and provide intellectual guidance, mentoring and other support. I think this depends more on the individual sponsor than the university, and also whether the research is part of a larger team, or individual.
Click to expand...

Many thanks for the reply, good points all round.

It has crossed his mind regarding a lecturing/teaching job going forward and right now certainly wants a change of job as currently he is particularly unhappy.

He is highly likely moving to Manchester for new employment and/or studies, so a wholesale life change. He can fund any studies from savings if need be.
 
i.j.russell said:
It depends on whether the industry he wants to work in values them. It does open up doors outside the UK as higher degrees are valued more elsewhere. I work for an Austrian company and we have two people working on Masters and two on PhDs who work part time for us during their studies.
Click to expand...

Thanks Ian, yes, the part time Masters is something (now) added to the overall decision.
 
mandryka said:
I have two masters degrees, and they were very different experiences. One is from Oxford University, Oriel, it was fabulous because the environment was intellectually lively and supportive, I was given no end of help and stimulation by some of the most interesting people working in the field. The other was from Imperial College in London and it was horrible. My tutor didn’t want to know, he was too busy running an international research career. I was basically more or less left to my own devices, to sink or swim basically. I didn’t sink, but only just!
.
Click to expand...
What a horribly familiar tale. I did my undergraduate degree at Imperial, and guess what? Nobody gave a flying s**t about undergraduates. I too was left to sort it out by myself with no guidance whatsoever. Imperial College is a dump, I wouldn't send my worst enemy there to do a degree. I had the worst 3 years of my life there. I served time. Like you, I survived, but only just. The best part of 3 years was cycling out onto Queensgate when I left, giving the place 2 fingers, saying "F** you" and vowing never to go back. I did go back, for the graduation, which I did for my parents. Never, ever, will I return.

On a more positive note, Masters. Yes, if it will help you do what you want. I know people who have done a Masters, got little from it and ended up doing the job they would have been doing anyway. A few years down the track it's an irrelevance, because it's all about their in-job performance. Conversely I know someone who did an arts degree, decided that it wasn't for her, she wanted to be a nutritionist and went the full BSc-Masters-PhD route. She now works at a University, doing research into nutrition and its role in non-communicable diseases for, amongst other organisations, the WHO. She couldn't have done this without the Masters en route.
 
stevec67 said:
What a horribly familiar tale. I did my undergraduate degree at Imperial, and guess what? Nobody gave a flying s**t about undergraduates. I too was left to sort it out by myself with no guidance whatsoever. Imperial College is a dump, I wouldn't send my worst enemy there to do a degree. I had the worst 3 years of my life there. I served time. Like you, I survived, but only just. The best part of 3 years was cycling out onto Queensgate when I left, giving the place 2 fingers, saying "F** you" and vowing never to go back. I did go back, for the graduation, which I did for my parents. Never, ever, will I return.


On a more positive note, Masters. Yes, if it will help you do what you want. I know people who have done a Masters, got little from it and ended up doing the job they would have been doing anyway. A few years down the track it's an irrelevance, because it's all about their in-job performance. Conversely I know someone who did an arts degree, decided that it wasn't for her, she wanted to be a nutritionist and went the full BSc-Masters-PhD route. She now works at a University, doing research into nutrition and its role in non-communicable diseases for, amongst other organisations, the WHO. She couldn't have done this without the Masters en route.
Click to expand...

A firm recommendation for IC then :D.


Thanks Steve, ultimately no one knows how things will pan out, but I can’t help think that any studies will be advantageous in some form or other. I myself didn’t do a degree and now looking back/seeing my colleagues it's clear there’s a divide of those who have a degree and those who have not, no jealousy (I’m not like that), just a fact.
 
PhilofCas said:
Thank you, he’s just speaking to them right now regarding this (Manchester Uni).
Click to expand...

BSc and PhD from Manchester here - there aren't many better places to study. However, I agree with previous comments, the culture of the particular course and access to staff is the key question, particularly after Easter when u/g teaching ends and research becomes the main priority of the job for most academics (because that is how they are judged.) Typically, in a place like Manchester, very few staff are recruited just to teach and even more rarely over the summer.
 
PhilofCas said:
A firm recommendation for IC then :D.


Thanks Steve, ultimately no one knows how things will pan out, but I can’t help think that any studies will be advantageous in some form or other. I myself didn’t do a degree and now looking back/seeing my colleagues it's clear there’s a divide of those who have a degree and those who have not, no jealousy (I’m not like that), just a fact.
Click to expand...
Yes, I did have the pleasure of being able to "recommend" the place to someone, to a student whose mother worked with mine and was thinking of going there. Did I have any advice? "Well, I'll ask him, said my mother. I don't think it will be entirely positive, I don't think he had a very good time there." I did indeed have some advice. Do. Not. EVER. Go There. That's all.

This was a number of years ago. Maybe, just maybe, it has raised its game and now that students are paying £9k pa they are asking questions along the lines of "Please tell me WTF I am paying £9k a year for, because I can buy the books for a few hundred and for the other £8k + I expect some input". But would I take the chance with someone I cared about? Never in a million years.
 
What is the intent of the Masters? Some are research-based and others are more like an extension of degree work with lectures to gain further knowledge in a specific field. The latter is obviously more vocational in nature, while the former is more of a toe-dipper if thinking of an academic career.

I also did a degree at IC and had a more positive experience with regard to staff. Maybe it varies by department.
 
All interesting. We have twin daughters, both just completed 2nd years at Uni. One doing Business and the other Geography.

The geography one is studying human geography rather than physical and now is getting more interested in Environmental / policy stuff. So she thinks she is going to need a masters to complete the specialisation and we are in full support of that. It will add somewhat to the debt mountain, but that is somewhat academic anyway. She will need to do some paid work alongside it help fund living. One year Masters fees for her are in the £12-15k range in the UK, plus living costs.

European study options, some of which were very interesting academically (and financially!) are effectively closed off now - Brexit dividend right there.

In many countries now it seems that a first degree is not enough to get on decent career ladder.

Consider too that all the 'professsions' require considerable extra study and exams to get fully qualified before you can start your career proper in your mid to late 20s. Medicine, Law, Architecture, Accountancy and so on. Our elder daughter is part way through ACA accountancy - which is 3 to 4 years post a 4 year degree course. She is working at the same time - so there is a fair workload on her.

As to Imperial - I did not go there myself, though I had an offer. My late Uncle, back in the 50s, and had a fantastic career in Aeronautics, then Manufacturing and then Transport at the highest levels as a result. But the sheer size of these colleges now is just mind boggling, so I do wonder if anyone gets recognised as an individual student. My twins are both on courses with large numbers of students - a lot overseas too. the experience is different.
 
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