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Martin- Logan or Quad ESL format? Pros and cons?

Mike Reed

Mike Reed

pfm Member
I've heard but not owned M-Ls but have big Quads (2905). I like the idea of the bass boost for M-Ls which has, by all accounts now been sorted i.r.t. integration. The M-Ls put out a much more narrow 'beam' (30 degrees?) whereas the Quads are far wider and expansive but obv. bass-limited. The M-Ls are domestically much more acceptable because of their width (half as much as Quad?).

Are there any other aspects to compare and define these two formats? Is the ESL panel 'sound' similar or are there describable differences in presentation and possibly amplification (power, s/s and/or valved).

Can't think there'd be too many fishies who've had both big Quads AND biggish M-Ls but hopefully there are some good, experienced-based suggestions on this patch.
 
The M-Ls put out a much more narrow 'beam' (30 degrees?) whereas the Quads are far wider and expansive

Heard lots of quads and had the summit x for some years . cant see why the quads are wider and expansive. the Summit x had the most incredible huge wall of sound . and yes they were far more waf friendly than big quads . as you say they can be adjusted for sound at the back and i prefer them . they would be back here if i was single . They just take up far less room in width and are beautifully coherant in sound and well as looking great
 
hifinutt said:
cant see why the quads are wider and expansive.
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I'm only going by the dispersion figure for M-Ls of 30 degrees but of course it depends upon how far away from the hot seat you have them. The width of 28" om my Quads, even though not curved as much, would seem to have a wider dispersion, Phil. Happy to be proved wrong in this assumption, but can't find this dispersion metric for the Quads,

Eoin said:
What’s good ESLs in a budget (ie under a grand all done)
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Not sure I follow but if ON a budget of under a grand, forget it to all extents and purposes, even used. 989s and older, smaller M-Ls may creep in. If you mean ANY ESLs, then there are a number. 'All in'? No idea what you mean; they are floor-standing speakers !
 
Mike Reed said:
I'm only going by the dispersion figure for M-Ls of 30 degrees but of course it depends upon how far away from the hot seat you have them. The width of 28" om my Quads, even though not curved as much, would seem to have a wider dispersion, Phil. Happy to be proved wrong in this assumption, but can't find this dispersion metric for the Quads,


Not sure I follow but if ON a budget of under a grand, forget it to all extents and purposes, even used. 989s and older, smaller M-Ls may creep in. If you mean ANY ESLs, then there are a number. 'All in'? No idea what you mean; they are floor-standing speakers !
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I heard some may need raising. Refurbs, broken panels, adding sub(s)?

The question is can it be done or are we into worn out or broken kit.
 
If your budget is around £1K I’d also look into the Maggie LRS (1st version) coupled with a sub or pair of subs on the used/ex dem market.

Logans with base subs and built in Anthem room correction start much higher, £6-7K minimum for a used pair of ESL11a. RRP prices have jumped up a lot the last couple of years.

I’ve owned quite a lot of speakers over a few decades, panel speakers like Logans do something special compared to boxes that suit my preferences perfectly. Like all hifi only way is demo/home trial or wait for a sensible price used to pop up and sell on for a small loss if they don’t suit.
 
My pair of Logans were wonderful. Utterly transparent, dynamic and sweet. I couldn't fault them until the panels began to fail. It just wasn't economic to repair them. Parts were stupidly costly, so in the end I junked them. What a shame.
 
Amber Audio said:
If your budget is around £1K I’d also look into the Maggie LRS (1st version) coupled with a sub or pair of subs on the used/ex dem market.
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This! Or a larger pair of Maggies you can refurb. It's perfectly doable and doesnt require any exotic materials.
 
Mike Reed said:
Same with Quads (as I've found) but aren't the M-L panels just one piece (as opposed to 6 in each 2905/2912/989 ?
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Yes, but it's a big expensive piece and don't be under the impression that the service department is anything like Quad.
 
I went from 989s (kept having repairs = 320,mile round trips to deliver/collect) to ML Summits. For me the 'sweet spot' expanded big time, maybe not quite as open sounding as the Quads but way more dynamic and detailed with real heft and punch to the bass. Superb imaging, sound staging and a real sense of being there, and as already said, a wall of sound with well integrated fast bass (apparently seamless with the panels).
My Summits however are currently sat idle in my bedroom awaiting a buyer, as, following an extended period using my 2nd system with Kef 104ab or Arcam Two Plus speakers (upstairs tennent enforced, as listen 10 - 12 hrs a day) I've changed the type of sonic signature I now want from my main rig so I'm now running SF Toy Towers and a valve integrated .
 
Seeker_UK said:
Do they need a beefy amp to drive ?
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Not really my Summits where relatively happy on the end of my 50wpc 80s Cambridge Audio A50, a Rotel RA-06, and briefly an Icon Audio ST40. For most of my ownership they were run with IA MB845SEs, Nord One UP SE NC500M then a GamuT D200, so most amps will drive them.
 
Seeker_UK said:
Do they need a beefy amp to drive ?
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A good bit of power is recommended, most non exotic amps will be fine though. The LRS came out at 650$ so were not aimed at being matched with esoteric kit.

I’ve used all sorts with my ESL11a, the only amps that really disappointed were Quad Mono’s, something just didn’t click with the low end. A pair of Bel Canto 600M Ref were very good, took me half a year to decide to permanently replace them with a Luxman 590, the sweeter mids swung it in the end.
 
Lurch said:
then a GamuT D200,
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That's quite an amp by all I read; quite extensively when I was seriously considering one to replace what I thought was broken EAR 509s.

Have read somewhere, but maybe a myth, that unlike Quads, M-Ls are not as happy with valves, however beefy, preferring s/s class A/B
 
Mike Reed said:
That's quite an amp by all I read; quite extensively when I was seriously considering one to replace what I thought was broken EAR 509s.

Have read somewhere, but maybe a myth, that unlike Quads, M-Ls are not as happy with valves, however beefy, preferring s/s class A/B
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Happy with tubes or trannys. USA guys seem to rate Sanders amps which are specifically designed for ‘statics. Might try one next year.

Sanders Sound Systems - ESL Mark II Amplifier

Sanders Sound Systems ESL Amplifier Page.
sanderssoundsystems.com sanderssoundsystems.com

MartinLogan | Help Articles : Features and General Questions for Electrostatic Speakers

www.martinlogan.com www.martinlogan.com

In general, we recommend an amplifier with 100 to 200 watts per channel for most applications. Probably less would be adequate for our smaller hybrids or when used in home theater where a subwoofer is employed. Our hybrid designs will perform well with either a tube or transistorized amplifier, and will reveal the sonic character of either type. However, it is important that the amplifier be stable operating into varying impedance loads: an ideally stable amplifier will typically be able to deliver nearly twice its rated 8 Ohm wattage into 4 Ohms and should again increase into 2 Ohms.​
 
I hate these threads about panels, they start that itch going again.

The fact that they are always constructive and congenial is no help whatsoever. How is that panels attract that? I do recall debate but not any bitching or rancor on panel threads.

I should never even open one...................................
 
Vinny said:
I hate these threads about panels, they start that itch going again.

The fact that they are always constructive and congenial is no help whatsoever. How is that panels attract that? I do recall debate but not any bitching or rancor on panel threads.

I should never even open one...................................
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Come over to the dark side Vinny. Years of uncoloured panel sound await you. Everything is chill, smooth, transparent sound is a given. You know you want it..
 
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