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Mark Levinson Quad ESL-57 system

Hi guys,

i´m new here but i read this forum for a while now.

I plan to build a "modified" HQD System, which means i´m going to replace hartley woofers (tooooo rare and expensive :mad:) with something else.This "something else" will be a pair (or two) of legendary Tesla alnico woofers (which are also very rare and very enpensive but i have them at home :D ). Since i have two different types of it, i do not really know which would be better. So here´s my question: the original hartleys where very efficient right? I guess something about 100db to compensate the rolloff?? And they were cut off very low (50Hz?????) to match the lower efficiency of quads??? Or am i wrong??
I have two different types of Tesla woofers, one is very efficient - 98db/1W the other one, low efficient - 87dB/1w. Both of them are 15inch, 15ohm all alnico. The low efficient version have the advantage of lower fs, which in this case is - 17,5Hz !!!!!!!!!!! :D the other one 24Hz (hard suspension)- not bad at all.
So which one would be better to use with Quads and deccas?? What´s your opinion? I mean here the difference in efficiency of woofers and the rest of the system.

Thanks
 
There where also a specially modified reel to reel tape recorder in the HQD system, as I remember it. For those fortunate enough to have copies of master tapes around...

JohanR
 
I'm using stacked quads for half a year now. I had the luck to buy 2 pairs in a very short period of time. I payed 300€ per pair. One pair had been living in an attic and had collected dust for 15 years. After cleaning them out, they were looking like new. No arcing on the panels, the panels even loaded very fast.
The second pair I bought for the same price. Also in the same condition.
Compared to the single set, the stack is opener. the sweet spot is larger. With the single setup, I had the problem that, when I stood up from my listening chair, the magic was lost and the music sounded like crap. Only in the listeners chair, the music was magical, but every where else in the room you missed something. Now with the stack, the sweet spot is much larger and you have good quality music throughout the room.
If you are a selfish person, stay with the pair, but if you want everybody to enjoy the grandness of these speakers, stack them.
Ok I had the luck to be able to buy them very cheap and technically still in grate shape. The looks is something you can revise with ease and without extreme costs.
I used to have these in parallel on one Bryston 3B amp. After 2 months one channel of the amp blew away, luckily for me without taking the speakers with it.
I strongly suggest to give each speaker its own amplifier if you use solid state amps. I now drive them with 2 Quad 606MKII amps with one amp per side and one speaker per channel. The problem is in parallel configuration that in the higher frequencies (14KHz and above) these ESL's drop to 1 ohm and thus in parallel to 0,5 ohm. Not that many amplifiers like this as I found out the hard way.
Also keep in mind that when you stack them, you also use a large room. In a to small room, these speakers wont work at all. I just moved apartments and the room i had was first 16m2 and now 24m2. The bigger room sounds way better than the smaller one and I still have the feeling, the room could still be bigger...
Now my fingers start to itch again and I'm now looking to upgrade me system to the HQD from ML. The only thing I wont be using is the amplifiers, because they are way out of my financial league...
I'm searching for the Hartley woofers, but turned out empty. Anyone have a suggestion to replace these for something similar? Does anyone know how to build the housing or even more info for this speaker?

Cheers,

Rob
 
I have a pair of stacked Quad ESL57s, completely rebuilt from scratch by Quad Musikwiedergabe in Germany a couple of years ago. They are powered by a Naim NAC52/2xNAP135 system. They sound utterly wonderful, and certainly don't need a supertweeter or subwoofer to screw up their uniquely clear sound. Sure, the bass doesn't have the boom that you get from a cabinet-mounted bass unit, but that only shows how clear the non-boom-box bass actually is.

I'll try to work out how to post photos soon, and add some here when I can.
 
To pick on the point about additional tweeters, the 57 in good condition will extend out past 20khz. An original quad panel will actually display some HF rise on axis above 14khz.

Two things to consider:

The HF rise is likely to be ameliorated when using a tube amplifier as the output impedance of a most valve amps will lose a couple of db in the power transfer when driving 1-1.8 ohm load. Use of most SS amps (able to drive the load) will leave the bare response intact.
Worth looking at the Quad II power amplifier with which the ESL was originally partnered - 1.8 ohms output impedance on the 16 ohm tap.
However, I don't think that anyone should be troubled by the HF rise. Rising HF can be nasty from a conventional moving coil tweeter but treble from the ESL panels has utra-low distortion and sounds super clean.
Subjectively the effect is actually quite positive on most recordings.

The only reason to consider additional tweeters would be to improve dispersion.
I've tried it and prefer not to use them, but it will be down to personal preference.

Some time ago I briefly considered stacked 57s but the thought of living in near total darkness by having them towering over me in such a small room quickly put me off the idea.
 
and what about the amplification of stacked quads? 15 watts of quad II are enough?Or should i use twice more power, lets say 40 watt push pull??
 
One amp or one channel dedicated to each speaker seems the general advice.
Wired in parallel the impedance falls to about 0.5 ohms at HF and is an amp crippling load.
That means 4 x Quad IIs if that is the chosen amp.
 
My memory is not so good, but wasn't the Quad II originally set for 16 Ohm output from factory? and the ESL57 was used with that.

The Quad II can be set for 8 Ohms output by changing links on the output transformer. (can't remember the link letters, but its in the handbook).

If this is the case, it should be OK to connect two ESL57 in parallel to a Quad II set for 8 Ohms output. Thick speaker leads would probably be beneficial.

Other valve amps will have output impedance adjustment. My Radford STA25 III has 4, 8 and 16 Ohms selectable by a switch on each channel.
 
Radfordman said:
My memory is not so good, but wasn't the Quad II originally set for 16 Ohm output from factory? and the ESL57 was used with that.

The Quad II can be set for 8 Ohms output by changing links on the output transformer. (can't remember the link letters, but its in the handbook).

If this is the case, it should be OK to connect two ESL57 in parallel to a Quad II set for 8 Ohms output. Thick speaker leads would probably be beneficial.

Other valve amps will have output impedance adjustment. My Radford STA25 III has 4, 8 and 16 Ohms selectable by a switch on each channel.
Click to expand...

My 57's certainly prefer the 16 ohm taps, sounding so much better, especially in the bass.
Errol.
 
i have an opportunity to get PRIBOJ power amp, probably the same model that anubisgrau talked about at the beginning of the thread. It´s ukrainian (not russian) power amp with 50 watt for channel, uses 6r3s beam power tetrodes. This amp must be seriously tweaked before it starts to play nice, but i will get it really cheap so i´ll take that risk. Than
i have to make a trip to UK and pick up my two pairs of ESL 57s that already wait for me :)
Than some decent frames...Anyone have some plans for original ML HQD Frames??
 
i´ve finally received my 4 quads 57. Unfortunately one of them seems to have some problem with right bass panel. Will be checked soon so the whole project will have to wait couple of days. Other question: i have an old tube receiver from Fisher, model 500B which suppose to sound really delicious.. http://www.stereophile.com/historical/605fisher/ It is 35wpc, 7951 tube, vintage receiver from 1960s. I was wondering if this tank will handle stacked quads with his 35 watts. I would like to use an active crossover (behringer) and let quads play from 70 to 7000Hz just like by Mark Levinson. You think fisher is ok for that purpose???
 
hifienthusiast said:
These look like Mark Levinson's double Quad:
ben-6.jpg


You may be interested in reading this thread about ESL57 and ESL63:
http://www.review33.com/avforum/forum_message.php?topic=12050904135925

Someone I know has just bought a frame for double Quad ESL57.
IMG_1800.jpg


Another friend just visited his friend whom he sold his previous double Quad:

DSCN0023-1.jpg
Click to expand...
hey guys,i saw an old picture of my stereo setup.it is the same photo that Mark Levinson
used in his interview.thanks,i am famous.it is old(very)stuff,but the sound is......
dont forget the crossovers.they are very important.
regards,
Ben.
 
Ben from europe said:
hey guys,i saw an old picture of my stereo setup.it is the same photo that Mark Levinson
used in his interview.thanks,i am famous.it is old(very)stuff,but the sound is......
dont forget the crossovers.they are very important.
regards,
Ben.
Click to expand...

Ben,

What can you tell us about the crossovers? Design? Pictures? Availability?

Thanks.

HD.
 
Robert said:
Some time ago I briefly considered stacked 57s but the thought of living in near total darkness by having them towering over me in such a small room quickly put me off the idea.
Click to expand...

Pffft, some people.:rolleyes:

:D

I keep mine away from the windows so they don't make it too dark. They do, er, dominate the room a bit though.

Mine run on a Yaqin MC10 with 2x EL34s a channel. The amp runs it no problem, it's got more than enough power. I do also have an active subwoofer that helps out if I want some rock and roll and it's not too late. Do I need it? No, but it's fun.:cool:

If anyone wants a sketch of my doubled-up Quad stands, just ask:). They would be easy to build and they do the job.
 
Robert said:
To pick on the point about additional tweeters, the 57 in good condition will extend out past 20khz.
The only reason to consider additional tweeters would be to improve dispersion.
Click to expand...

Is that why the ribbon tweeter was there? I've always been puzzled by that aspect of the famous HQD system. I use a single pair of ESL 57s with a REL sub - the sub is obviously necessary, but I feel no need whatever to augment the treble. It's borderline bright already, as has been pointed out there is a lift above 14kHz, it would be much too bright with an extra tweeter, surely?
 
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