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Make my Garrard 401 sing

P

pap247

pfm Member
I have recently bought a later style Garrard 401 and within a couple of minutes I got her up and running in the ugly bulky plinth (a few adjustments mounted the top mdf board with some focal pods) with my rega 250 tonearm and DL110. My wife and I look on in trepidation expecting this old thing to blow up but it ended up blowing me away with a really powerful performance.
Spurred on I need to make some progress on both the decks condition and plinth since Tony thread has so much food for thought on the plinth side of things I just want to plead for anyone’s input on getting condition of this turntable back up to speed.
Issues can been seen in the picture below:

problems.jpg


First issue is general condition in terms of dirt and grime what is the best products to treat these parts (labelled A in the image other part also need cleaned), secondly there is a hole beside the main bearing spindle (B) that appears to require a screw of some sort thirdly on the under side the pulley that operates the brake (D) only has one small spring instead of three fourthly the motor does not have the large silver bracket (C) that others have (will not having this make a big difference to the sound?) finally were is the best place to attach the earth cable (E).
I have contacted perfect sound about the missing parts just waiting for a response.

Ed
 
pap247 said:
First issue is general condition in terms of dirt and grime what is the best products to treat these parts (labelled A in the image other part also need cleaned), secondly there is a hole beside the main bearing spindle (B) that appears to require a screw of some sort thirdly on the under side the pulley that operates the brake (D) only has one small spring instead of three fourthly the motor does not have the large silver bracket (C) that others have (will not having this make a big difference to the sound?) finally were is the best place to attach the earth cable (E).
Click to expand...

(A) I'd clean the dust off the brake wheel with an old paint brush, perhaps use a little wadding polish on the spindle if it's really grubby (easiest to do it whilst it's running) and a bit of isopropyl alcohol to the rim of the idler to get any grease or other contamination off. Finish the spindle and inner rim of the platter with isopropyl too, these three areas need to be very clean and free from any contamination. When it's right the platter should spin up to speed almost instantly, i.e. within a revolution or so. Are you planning to service the motor?

(b) It's a little screw with a washer / gasket that's missing, you want one, try Loricraft. This is where one tops up the oil reservoir. There should also be a felt washer around the spindle too (I can't tell if it's there in the pic), this is kept well oiled and feeds the top sintered bushing. I'd advise removing the bearing from the deck, opening it (two screws on the bottom) and giving it a good clean, a good inspection, and then relube before running it.

(c) The large silver cage is the transit bracket and has no effect of the sound, it is used to anchor the motor in transit so it doesn't bounce about and damage itself / the brake wheel.

(d) I think I know what you mean; the three little springs that decouple the fine speed linkage from the arm on the motor assembly that moves the magnets over the eddy break wheel? If so you want these, try Loricraft.

Tony.
 
Hi Ed - I second the isopropyl alcohol.

You should top up the oil in the bearing right away -before you play it any more! Use some motor oil, gear oil, sewing machine oil - these are all used and recommended by various users.

If you grab the edges of the platter while it is still on the spindle, and lift one edge while depressing the oppisite side, is there play in the spindle (does the spindle wiggle - as opposed to rotating)? If there is no wiggle, I would use a thinner oil. Very slight wiggle - motor oil. Slight wiggle - gear oil. Taking the bearing apart is very simple, and the only way you can see if your bearing has wear from lack of prior maintenance.

You should really read JD's website on his 301 restoration project. It really helped me with my understanding my 401 when I first got it - they are by and large the same basic design. The basic maintenace is the same for a oil bearing 301 and 401.

http://home.earthlink.net/~transcrubbers/index.html

Mark Kelly also has a good page - http://www.members.iinet.net.au/~quiddity/audio/Garrard301_2.html

I attach my earth wire to the earth lug of my preamp.

I would strongly recommend the ATA Kokomo thrust bearing replacement - I put one on my 401 and WOW! What a huge difference from a cheap upgrade. It was the first thing I did when I scored a 301 later on - http://www.analogtubeaudio.de/index.php?article_id=128

Slatedeck does one too - but I am more impressed with the engineering of the ATA, but I have not heard the Slatedeck. Others do like it, however.

Welcome to the club!
David
 
gortnipper said:
I would strongly recommend the ATA Kokomo thrust bearing replacement - I put one on my 401 and WOW! What a huge difference from a cheap upgrade. It was the first thing I did when I scored a 301 later on - http://www.analogtubeaudio.de/index.php?article_id=128
Click to expand...

Have you monitored it for wear at all? Personally I'm very reluctant to alter any of the 'sacrificial' elements of the bearing (sintered bronze thrust plate and bushings) to a material that is far harder than the irreplaceable spindle. I'd be interested to know whether you have a dent on the bottom after a year or so.

Tony.
 
Thanks Tony/David,
I will try to buy some suitable oil and isopropyl alcohol today to carry out the first steps cleaning and lubrication. JD’s website seams like a good source to get me going in the right direction. Tony I am hoping that I will not need to service the motor however if push come to shove and it needs it I will do it (funds are not available to get a proper service). I will keep you up to date of my progress.
Thanks again for your great advise guys,

Ed
 
Is the motor on these a complex thing to service or is it a fairly obvious and simple DIY exercise like the Lenco motor?
 
Uncle Ants said:
Is the motor on these a complex thing to service or is it a fairly obvious and simple DIY exercise like the Lenco motor?
Click to expand...

I left mine to Loricraft, though I'll do it myself next time it needs any work. The Lenco is definitely the easiest / simplest design to work on. Both the Garrard and Thorens have rivets that need drilling out to really get in and clean things, plus they have very awkward linkage that's hard to remove. I did my TD-124/II myself and it wasn't hard as such, just not anywhere near as simple as the Lenco which strips down to individual components in minutes. Are you enjoying your Lenco?

Tony.
 
Tony L said:
I left mine to Loricraft, though I'll do it myself next time it needs any work. The Lenco is definitely the easiest / simplest design to work on. Both the Garrard and Thorens have rivets that need drilling out to really get in and clean things. I did my TD-124/II and it wasn't hard as such, just not anywhere near as simple as the Lenco which strips down to individual components in minutes. Are you enjoying your Lenco?
Click to expand...

Very much so. It was suffering from some motor breakthrough, but that's now tamed. The Spacedeck hasn't seen a disc in several weeks, poor thing. Still in the big hollow open fronted plinth handy as you can access everything underneath to try different tweaks. I've tried all sorts of different ideas regarding damping etc, but frankly the important (ie effective) things were simply making sure everything was properly cleaned and lubed and decent feet on the plinth. Everything else was neither here nor there. New plinth is in my head at the moment. The Lenco very intelligently designed - though I can't help thinking a more solid (and flat) top plate would have been the icing on the cake.

Good luck with the 401 Ed
 
Tony L said:
Have you monitored it for wear at all? Personally I'm very reluctant to alter any of the 'sacrificial' elements of the bearing (sintered bronze thrust plate and bushings) to a material that is far harder than the irreplaceable spindle. I'd be interested to know whether you have a dent on the bottom after a year or so.

Tony.
Click to expand...

Thats a fair point. I havent taken it apart, but am going to rejig the plinth I have made for it sometime this month, and when I do I will tear the spinlde down and have a look. I will report back when i do.

David
 
Originally Posted by Tony L
Have you monitored it for wear at all? Personally I'm very reluctant to alter any of the 'sacrificial' elements of the bearing (sintered bronze thrust plate and bushings) to a material that is far harder than the irreplaceable spindle. I'd be interested to know whether you have a dent on the bottom after a year or so.

Tony.

I run the Kokomo bearing on a 401, it is the biggest thing you can do to improve it. The ceramic ball is made from a softer grade than some ,it is designed to wear first.Its worth reading up on the concept on the website.I have had it in for about a year with no problems the main issue for me was the old gasket leaking,I eventually got a new style replacement on e-bay.
Geoff
 
I second the user reports ATA Kokomo kit above. Its effect on sound is incredible. The other no-brainer is the Loricraft power supply.
While the Kokomo adds midrange and treble clarity, and sorts the soundstage, the Loricraft PS adds real timing and bass texture.
So with both Kokomo AND Loricraft PS, a Garrard is a real threat to all modern decks regardless of price.

best regards, Hartmut
 
Wanted to try a power supply such as the Loricraft but reports seem mixed and they ain't cheap.
Another good trick is to lossen off the wire loom to the motor, mine was very stiff,this allows the suspension to work freely.There was an obvios improvement and it does not cost a thing.
Geoff
 
I bought the Kokomo kit months ago but i finally installed it a few hours ago to my recently plinted oil bearing Garrard 301 and the improvement is quite obvious. I tend to agree with what Hartmut has pointed out about the Kokomo upgrade. Very worthwhile and good value upgrade indeed.
 
I have two different vintages of the Loricraft PS. While both sound superior than driving the G301 without them, they do sound different. The newer one has a bigger effect on the sound, but also produces some mechanical hum. I had to sort out a slight 20mV offset at the power amplifier which feeds the internal 250VA stepup transformer, to eliminate the hum. Both take some time to sing, so I leave them on all the time. This might be due to the Wien brigde, which takes 5 to 10 minutes to stabilize for output voltage. So even when not powered on all the time, it is necessary to start the PS at least 5 minutes before starting the Garrard deck.

It might be a fine DIY project (Teddy?), as the Loricraft PS is basically a Wien bridge and a simple Mosfet power amp feeding a stepup ring core transformer.

Recent versions might have been changed, on their website I read something that sounds like a Linn Valhalla style PS to me.

best regards, Hartmut
 
Would there be any benefit to an 'Armageddon' type arrangement with a Garrard? They seem really easy to build!

Tony.
 
The whole power supply thing is intersting for 301/401, other smaller motor decks seem to benifit regardless of what type of supply is used.When I got my 401 I tried the light bulb in the supply line idea and did not like it.Since fitting the Kokomo I like it best with a 60w bulb.The most obvious thing with the Kokomo is the reduced friction in the bearing, so reducing the voltage has less negative efect than on the original worn bearing.Most supplies intended for garrards reduce the voltage as well so this may be why the reports vary so much.
Definatly a DIY project there for someone who knows what he is doing.
Geoff
 
Tony L said:
Would there be any benefit to an 'Armageddon' type arrangement with a Garrard? They seem really easy to build!

Tony.
Click to expand...

It'd need a lot more grunt, but in theory it should push out a nice clean sine wave rather than the slightly raggedy one you get from the mains. It may help reduce motor noise.

There's a discussion of a DIY box to do this over on Lenco Heaven. Same box ought to work on a Garrard.

You could also use it for switching speeds (and adjusting them) without using the deck controls. Though this is probably of more interest for a Lenco using one of the PTP top plates rather than a Garrard. The same thing could be built without the switching and adjustment I presume, to use with a Garrard

I've used a Heed Orbit with a Spacedeck, which does the same the same thing in principal, though nowhere near enough grunt for a Garrard of course.
 
GWM said:
The whole power supply thing is intersting for 301/401, other smaller motor decks seem to benifit regardless of what type of supply is used.When I got my 401 I tried the light bulb in the supply line idea and did not like it.Since fitting the Kokomo I like it best with a 60w bulb.The most obvious thing with the Kokomo is the reduced friction in the bearing, so reducing the voltage has less negative efect than on the original worn bearing.Most supplies intended for garrards reduce the voltage as well so this may be why the reports vary so much.
Definatly a DIY project there for someone who knows what he is doing.
Click to expand...

I've heard comments both ways with the reducing the current with a light bulb thing, some say it's quieter, i.e. reduces rumble, but it also reduces torque so maybe a throw the baby out with the bathwater thing. I've never tried it, my 301 is fully Loricraft restored / refurbished but unmodified in any way. Rumble is simply not an issue to my ears, I can hear a little on a uncut groove with my ear right up against the speaker, but nothing that even remotely gets in the way of music.

Tony.
 
Uncle Ants said:
It'd need a lot more grunt, but in theory it should push out a nice clean sine wave rather than the slightly raggedy one you get from the mains. It may help reduce motor noise.
Click to expand...

Logically I far prefer the idea of cleaning the power source rather than reducing it. My suspicion as to why the Garrards etc sound as good as they do is that they are so high-torque. This is just speculation though, I have no experience to back it up.

Tony.
 
Tony L said:
Logically I far prefer the idea of cleaning the power source rather than reducing it. My suspicion as to why the Garrards etc sound as good as they do is that they are so high-torque. This is just speculation though, I have no experience to back it up.
Click to expand...

It's logical but I don't know how much it's worth the effort. ie. how much any theoretical additional motor noise as a result of mains noise actually manifests itself in reality. It may just be one of those audiophile solutions to an imaginary problem.
 
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