LP12 vs 1200GR
- Thread starter clownfish
- Start date
tpetsch
...The rhythm has Control
Say what you want about about the LP12 with it's colorations and whatnot but when it comes down to gaining a greater understanding of complex passages, musician interplay and correctly passing along the heart/soul of the music from the vinyl groove to the listener & not just some random series of notes the LP12 has the edge. ...Yes, the Technics may recreate a very accurate & unwavering piano note strike sustain, but it's when it comes to putting all the notes together to recreate the overall musical performance that's the issue.
Iain Docherty
pfm Member
My 1210GR is now nicely bedded in. I can hear precisely what people would think of as both ‘dead’ and ‘precise’ in comparison to my LP12. I need to get a better cartridge than the VM95e on it and do a proper comparison.
halvis
pfm Member
Regarding the dead thing, I think there is a difference. I pitched my GR next to a Thorens TD160 and I had the TD321 before the GR. You don’t have the midrange bloom with the Technics which is present with the other decks and the LP12 as I remember.
Personally, I find the bloom is nice with some music and can get in the way with other material. It’s not a huge difference and either one you can get easily accustomed to.
Personally, I find the bloom is nice with some music and can get in the way with other material. It’s not a huge difference and either one you can get easily accustomed to.
Iain Docherty
pfm Member
My LP12 (30 years old) is now an almost Klimax with Karousel so it has very little if any of the old bloom to be heard. I now have it, the SL1210GR, a Pink Triangle Anni and a Source in active service. Must sort out a proper comparison… would be fun.
chris@panteg
pfm Member
What tonearms and cartridges do you have fitted your selection of deck's, The Source is a rare turntable, beautiful decks, I remember hearing one at Doug Dunlop's place in Barwell (Concordant Audio) a long time ago now.
Seanm
pfm Member
Interestingly, or not, I thought the 321 I had for a while recently had a similar quality. By “deadness” I mean a kind of blunted quality, like notes are decaying too soon. Maybe what others hear as a lack of overhang. I’m not sure bloom is the right word for the opposite, as I hear it.
Iain Docherty
pfm Member
LP12 is Klimax with the exception of an Akurate case Radikal and a Krystal rather than better cartridge. Pink has a Funk FXR and an AT PTG33ii, Source has a new MCRU regulated power supply, Zeta and the same AT. All lovely decks
hermit
Aye, right.
You seem to be suggesting that the Technics can't put together all the notes to replay the recording. Or am I misunderstanding you? How is that even possible? The stylus is tracing the groove and therefore it is picking up all the notes in the right order and reproducing them, all the notes. It's not being selective.
chris@panteg
pfm Member
sonddek
Trade: SUPATRAC
There are more notes when platter speed is less stable. A sustained 'note' will comprise a narrow spectrum of slightly varying tones as speed changes. Distortion usually makes musical information more complicated.
I found that three of my decks behaved pretty closely to CD/digital in terms of pitch and the stability of notes, whereas one deck was the odd one out and seemed to contribute almost subliminal variations in pitch which did not seem to be in the recording, by consensus of other equipment.
'Musicality™' might just be familiar wow.
I found that three of my decks behaved pretty closely to CD/digital in terms of pitch and the stability of notes, whereas one deck was the odd one out and seemed to contribute almost subliminal variations in pitch which did not seem to be in the recording, by consensus of other equipment.
'Musicality™' might just be familiar wow.
This discussion is like watching that sketch where Eric Morecombe played Rachmaninov with Andre Preview.
chris@panteg
pfm Member
Grieg Piano concerto my dear fellow.
It was too short by about a yard as I remember it
I was also trying to get that quote (cannot remember who said it) about Rachmaninov's "too many notes" in. Eddie Braben I am not...
Great point.
But surely wow must be stochastic depending on the relative positions of the record, the platter and the belt, and the length of the note(s) - so it should never be familiar?
sonddek
Trade: SUPATRAC
One theory is that on some decks a wow pattern is contributed by the drive or suspension system partly as a function of signal energy. Trivially this must be true, since there is increased work driving the record under stylus drag when signal energy increases, but it is moot whether it is subliminally or consciously audible.
If a deck were to slow marginally with louder signal you might expect it to affect the mood of a passage in a repeatable and eventually familiar way. Mood and pace are important to overall impressions of music, and this could affect long term attitudes to comparisons between decks. A lot of our enjoyment of music is in expectation and predictability as becomes very clear when you listen to different productions of a symphony, for example.
If you came to love a piece of music on one deck, you might be a little disappointed by its performance on another deck even were the substitute more accurate to the original recording in speed accuracy and other factors.