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LP12/Ekos/Troika bettered by Streaming???

P

Paul3

pfm Member
I've just had my LP12 serviced, new springs/grommets, Valhalla recapped, PreFix fitted, new oil and belt.

I fully expected vinyl to sound better than my Mac streamer, but it does not.

Streamed is much more detailed, dynamic and an altogether more natural sound.

How can this be? Must be something wrong with LP12? or setup, or ??

Streaming from MacMini, OS and iTunes on an SSD, 4GB ram, Amarra, HiFace, DacMagic,

Both into 32.5 modded with local TRs / Avondale M1s / Isobariks

Paul
 
No thats exaactly what you should expect!

The people who continually carp on about how wonderful their LP12 sounds generally haven't got a decent modern digital rig because "digital was crap in the 1980's so it must still be".

Your Valhalla is the weakest link in the TT and you'll get a big improvement if you get a Lingo 2.

Also if its recentyly recapped it could be in the period where it sounds totally crap. You need to leave the TT running for about 48 hours to get the new caps anywhere near run in. Until then your LP12 will sound like the worst piece of 1970's junk imaginable.
 
suppose it depends on what aspects of the performance are important to you.

if you have your mac mini plugged directly into your dacmagic then that is hard disk replay (not streaming, which normally refers to network transfer) and does sound very good indeed.

it might be that you require a better spec of deck to improve on the sound of your digital replay.
 
Paul3 said:
I've just had my LP12 serviced, new springs/grommets, Valhalla recapped, PreFix fitted, new oil and belt.

I fully expected vinyl to sound better than my Mac streamer, but it does not.

Streamed is much more detailed, dynamic and an altogether more natural sound.

How can this be? Must be something wrong with LP12? or setup, or ??

Streaming from MacMini, OS and iTunes on an SSD, 4GB ram, Amarra, HiFace, DacMagic,

Both into 32.5 modded with local TRs / Avondale M1s / Isobariks

Paul
Click to expand...
What was it like before the upgrade? Do you also play CD directly, and how does that compare?
 
Nik said:
What was it like before the upgrade? Do you also play CD directly, and how does that compare?
Click to expand...

I had the TT looked at because the Mac / DAC sounded better.

I had a CD5 / HiCap, but the Mac/DAC beat it easy, so I sold it on.
 
colasblue said:
No thats exaactly what you should expect!

The people who continually carp on about how wonderful their LP12 sounds generally haven't got a decent modern digital rig because "digital was crap in the 1980's so it must still be".

Your Valhalla is the weakest link in the TT and you'll get a big improvement if you get a Lingo 2.

Also if its recentyly recapped it could be in the period where it sounds totally crap. You need to leave the TT running for about 48 hours to get the new caps anywhere near run in. Until then your LP12 will sound like the worst piece of 1970's junk imaginable.
Click to expand...

Hi
I'll keep the TT on, as you say.

I'm not keen on upgrading the LP12 as my taste in music has changed dramatically. I was hoping to enjoy my LPs more after the service.

Is a Lingo 2 much better than a 1?

I have a Geddon clone, but the dealer does not think it would improve anything.
Paul
 
A dacmagic shouldn't show a tidy LP12 a clean pair of heels, get your cartridge checked. If anything the DM will time a little tighter with more bass texture, but I'd expect a troika/pre-fix to take it to the cleaners in the upper frequencies. At least based on my experience of owning of Troika/aro/lp12, 323 cards+teddyregs vs a very modded Cambridge Audio 840c.
 
sq225917 said:
A dacmagic shouldn't show a tidy LP12 a clean pair of heels, get your cartridge checked. If anything the DM will time a little tighter with more bass texture, but I'd expect a troika/pre-fix to take it to the cleaners in the upper frequencies. At least based on my experience of owning of Troika/aro/lp12, 323 cards+teddyregs vs a very modded Cambridge Audio 840c.
Click to expand...

Hi Si
I'll swap the cart. as above, and get Troika checked out at Origami??

Paul
 
Purite Audio said:
I am not really surprised, digital can be extremely good.
Keith.
Click to expand...

Well I am surprised. Digital can indeed be very good, but in this instance I would expect the OP to either find them level pegged, or the deck to be superior.

Keith, you sound like you have spent rather too long wandering on the dark side. Hasn't your new 'super deck' reawakened your appreciation of analogue?
 
Nik said:
So was the CD5 comparable to the LP12?
Click to expand...

I don't know, I did not have lp12 in use at the same time. Would be interesting to see if anything has changed.

The dealer who did the service, S O at York, thought that the deck sounded about right, but the cartridge was a bit low ( to the surface of the record )
 
Paul3,

Here's a comparison I posted between my LP12, a high-resolution (DSD-converted FLAC), and CD-quality sample of the exact same recording and mastering. They are normalized.

Although the recording isn't ideal for this kind of comparison, I can't imagine why a streamed file would sound better than my digital samples.

I certainly don't find the digital files to be "much more detailed, dynamic and an altogether more natural sound" than the record, but you can be the judge.
 
Paul3 said:
Hi
I'll keep the TT on, as you say.

I'm not keen on upgrading the LP12 as my taste in music has changed dramatically. I was hoping to enjoy my LPs more after the service.

Is a Lingo 2 much better than a 1?

I have a Geddon clone, but the dealer does not think it would improve anything.
Paul
Click to expand...


Either a lingo or a 'geddon is way better than a valhalla. I've owned all three in the past and eventually settled on the lingo though it isn't a clear cut choice, both have strenghths and weaknesses. The lingo actually went through many minor revisions in its life so its more a question of later ones sound better than very early ones, particularly the ones which don't contain a transformer.
 
YNWOAN said:
Well I am surprised. Digital can indeed be very good, but in this instance I would expect the OP to either find them level pegged, or the deck to be superior.

Keith, you sound like you have spent rather too long wandering on the dark side. Hasn't your new 'super deck' reawakened your appreciation of analogue?
Click to expand...

I have a fairly similar spec deck to the OP except that mine has a Lingo. Its also a 2001 model with corner bolt and cirkus. It cannot quite keep up with my digital kit, which is mediacentre PC with RME HDSP9624 running a Benchmark dac1.

Even more interestingly when I needledrop the LP12 at 96/24 using the RME/BM combo I actually can't reliably tell if im listening directly or monitoring if I set the levels correctly. That suggests that my digital kit definitely has the measure of the LP12.

Having said that I do stil enjoy listening to records, and don't rush out to buy my existing collection again on CD.
 
Even more interestingly when I needledrop the LP12 at 96/24 using the RME/BM combo I actually can't reliably tell if im listening directly or monitoring if I set the levels correctly.
Click to expand...

This is my experience too, at least when played back through the digital recorder itself.

But, in a small number of cases where I've compared my LP recordings with commercial CD ripped to my drive and played out through my DAC (like with the Analogue Production 45 rpm reissues and hybrid SACDs), I have a definite preference for my LP recording.

So the LP12 is still king for a few small specialty titles. But for everything else, there is no reason not to go with the ripped CD and dac.

Still, Paul3's LP12 should be able to hold its own. Mine certainly can.
 
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