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Loudspeakers and Bass Response

Isobarik

Isobarik

pfm Member
I've had quite a few loudspeakers that were noted for their bass response, IMF Pro Monitors, Linn Isobariks, Some big Kef's, can't remember the model number,Pro TL9's, Lecson HL1's and a few more.

Never really heard bass in my listening room mainly due to the construction of the room, wooden floor with a large cavity underneath.
I demoed a pair of Glastonbury 2s and the bass was unbelievable ' felt it in my stomach' so purchased them. I borrowed the amp that I demoed them with a Audio Research valve amp, can't remember the model but I do remember it having quiet a lot of valves!

They were totally bass light in my room, sited them in different positions all to no avail. Carpeted, rugs etc. Room size 19' X 13' ceiling height about 9'.
What are your experiences?
 
Some purists might not like it but adding a reasonable sub makes a difference. Mine is I integrated ‘REL demo style’, just filling in the lower end below 80Hz which is where the crossover on my Lyngdorf TDAi3400 is set. My Neat Orkestras allegedly go down to 20Hz. I find this works very well in a difficult open plan area with lots of glass around the main listening area. Previously I took pre-outs from my Exposure to the sub and relied on the sub’s controls to adjust which worked reasonably well. Room environment makes a big difference +/-. Many recommend using REW software and a UMIC microphone to measure the room acoustics but Ive not done that myself.
 
Emericanpie said:
Some purists might not like it but adding a reasonable sub makes a difference. Mine is I integrated ‘REL demo style’, just filling in the lower end below 80Hz which is where the crossover on my Lyngdorf TDAi3400 is set. My Neat Orkestras allegedly go down to 20Hz. I find this works very well in a difficult open plan area with lots of glass around the main listening area. Previously I took pre-outs from my Exposure to the sub and relied on the sub’s controls to adjust which worked reasonably well. Room environment makes a big difference +/-. Many recommend using REW software and a UMIC microphone to measure the room acoustics but Ive not done that myself.
Click to expand...
I've thought about buying a sub, perhaps it's time to invest in one?
 
Isobarik said:
I've had quite a few loudspeakers that were noted for their bass response, IMF Pro Monitors, Linn Isobariks, Some big Kef's, can't remember the model number,Pro TL9's, Lecson HL1's and a few more.

Never really heard bass in my listening room mainly due to the construction of the room, wooden floor with a large cavity underneath.
I demoed a pair of Glastonbury 2s and the bass was unbelievable ' felt it in my stomach' so purchased them. I borrowed the amp that I demoed them with a Audio Research valve amp, can't remember the model but I do remember it having quiet a lot of valves!

They were totally bass light in my room, sited them in different positions all to no avail. Carpeted, rugs etc. Room size 19' X 13' ceiling height about 9'.
What are your experiences?
Click to expand...
I had a similar room, and it was terrible. Had Briks and Neat Vitos which were also isobaric. The only speakers that worked really well were some re-built Celestion Ditton 66s. Stupidly sold them because I thought they would be too big for my new room which has one inch oak boards over a concrete floor. They could go quite close to the back wall so would have been fine. It would have been really good to hear them properly.
https://flic.kr/p/2hEEBV8
 
I generally agree with the premise that well matched and tuned subs can improve the sound of many speakers; particularly stand mounts and smaller floorstanders. And you're right that the size and acoustics of the room play a big part. The trick is choosing a pair of speakers which couple well to your room.

I'm lucky in that the basic acoustics of my apartment are good. My system is in my downstairs living/dining room which is about 7.5m x 5.0m x 9ft with an open atrium leading to a loft upstairs. So my room is medium size by volume. The floor is tiled over concrete which no doubt helps the bass. I found a good balance with a rug and 3 meters long soft-upholstered sofa.

The first speakers which properly coupled to my room were a pair of Infinity Renaissance 90's. Though my Classe Cap2100 integated was woefully underpowered driving the power-hungry Infinities. My next amp - a Boulder 1060 with a modified Ayon linestage would have been a better match. Alas I moved on the Rens for a pair of Marten Coltrane Alto's. My Magico's have also been a good match to my room...and this time fed by a much more powerful Vitus integrated. Though I think the 200w Vitus SIA-030 would be a better match with the Magico's. And I was planning to keep my S5 Mk2's and upgrade to the SIA-030, but changed my mind and now plan to buy high efficiency speakers which will be a complete doddle for my SIA-025.
 
MVV said:
I had a similar room, and it was terrible. Had Briks and Neat Vitos which were also isobaric. The only speakers that worked really well were some re-built Celestion Ditton 66s. Stupidly sold them because I thought they would be too big for my new room which has one inch oak boards over a concrete floor. They could go quite close to the back wall so would have been fine. It would have been really good to hear them properly.
https://flic.kr/p/2hEEBV8
Click to expand...
Nice room! A lot more space than mine.
 
darrenyeats said:
No I mean to integrate sub(s) properly usually needs delay control, usually on the mains, and the only practical way to do this is with DSP.
Click to expand...

Personally I’ve got the best integration with a sub using ATC 20 and Rel T7i with no other means, but for sure there might be more sophisticated approaches.
 
Isobarik said:
Nice room! A lot more space than mine.
Click to expand...
Thanks, not mine any more. It was nice but just didn't work as a hi-fi room. I had the lot ES 57, Epos 14s etc etc. The 14s worked well because they didn't excite it much. The Dittons were the best from a bass perspective. Looking back either Townsend or some kind of super separation of the speaker from the room like a steel girder concreted into the soil below the room and up through the floor. Which I thought about but thought was a bit mad. Oddly a much cheaper option and less mad than all the nonsense I did try.
 
darrenyeats said:
No I mean to integrate sub(s) properly usually needs delay control, usually on the mains, and the only practical way to do this is with DSP.
Click to expand...
If it's a high level connection and the subs are very close to the main speakers, I can't think of any reason for needing delay control.
 
Agreed in that specific case there is less to worry about, but then my instinct would be instead to get bigger speakers and be done with it.
 
IME a pair of good subs can be a very interesting and flexible solution for bass.
Probably I'm also lucky with my room but, at least to my ears and taste, with the right xover and volume settings, the twin subs blend in seamlessly and add such substance and atmosphere to music that it's difficult not to have them on.
 
darrenyeats said:
Agreed in that case there is less to worry about, but then my instinct would be instead to get bigger speakers and be done with it.
Click to expand...
Subs add extra flexibility as you can choose volume and xover settings to your liking. I also sit somewhat close to the speakers and prefer to have stand mounts rather than floorstanders.
And, perhaps as importantly, subs can reproduce low frequencies that very few big speakers can.
 
Phyztech said:
Personally I’ve got the best integration with a sub using ATC 20 and Rel T7i with no other means, but for sure there might be more sophisticated approaches.
Click to expand...
I suppose you could call a more sophisticated approach, the 50 or bigger actives which IMO slaughter e.g. 20 actives+new C4 for coherence. Unfortunately they cost. From previous comments I'm guessing you'd agree anyway.
 
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