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Loudness Wars, is the end actually coming?

darrenyeats said:
However, it's often down not to a creative choice but ignorance and path of least resistance (people around the artists telling them "this is how it's done"). People aren't born knowing this stuff and there are a lot of young musicians who aren't willing or able to question things.
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Absolutely - and a lot of musicians have grown up listening to over-compressed music, and have learned that that is how it is supposed to sound.

It is still a "creative choice", just like the choice of guitar pedals/effects you use.
 
Let's say the original release of a recording on CD has a DR value of 13. A few years later the recording is reissued and remastered. Now the DR value is 9.

An artistic decisions or something else?

Joe
 
Joe P said:
Let's say the original release of a recording on CD has a DR value of 13. A few years later the recording is reissued and remastered. Now the DR value is 9.

An artistic decisions or something else?
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Artistic choice by famous engineer/producer? :)
 
cooky1257 said:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb14/articles/loudness-war.htm
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Thank you. Now I know about these alleged wars.

Most of the music mentioned in this thread I have never heard of so it is unlikely I would suffer with the concerns of sweet Sue, Julf and the OP. Perhaps a cave or listening to music not affected with this cause for concern to a few. I did buy a remastered 20 bit CD of an old Family album and it sounded dire, now looking for an original copy.

OP no nerve touched I merely thought your post was vague and posed more questions than answers were offered for. Hope everyone thought they got something out of the thread.
 
Julf said:
Absolutely - and a lot of musicians have grown up listening to over-compressed music, and have learned that that is how it is supposed to sound.

It is still a "creative choice", just like the choice of guitar pedals/effects you use.
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Maybe, but it's not an informed creative choice. That's my point, and has been all along.
 
I think the main problem is that when albums are Compressed and Limitered to death this completely removes the choice from the end used, the consumer. Who lets be honest is who the media is aimed at.

Once the dynamic Range is gone you cannot get it back, but broadcasters and consumers have the option to compress and limiter their albums through available plugins, and software if that is what they want.

But this option is not available in reverse to someone who does not want all their music ruined. This is a very one sided, narrow minded and frankly silly way of doing things. Very Frustrating!!!! I Have a lot of albums that would sound 10 times better, had the dynamic range not been removed!

I really hope things will change, but then if they do, am I expected to re-buy all the re-released albums again??
 
Cjm75 said:
I think the main problem is that when albums are Compressed and Limitered to death this completely removes the choice from the end used, the consumer. Who lets be honest is who the media is aimed at.
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But likewise, when people over-use autotune, or cheesy drum tracks, do we become back-seat producers? No, we simply say "I don't like that" and don't buy the record.
 
Are you saying that i should be trying to find out what the DR is on an album before buying it. I generally buy albums based on which artists/musicians are on the album.

Does it not make more sense to give everyone the version with full
Dynamic Range , and then if someone wants to increase the volume they can. As said previously this operation is 1 way!!!!!

Why do it in the first place with all the freely available plugins that will allow joe bloggs to compress and limiter his albums to his liking......It is utter madness!!

Give people albums with the best SOUND QUALITY, if they want to add volume later, that is up to them!

We are not talking about peoples taste in music, we are talking about spoiling the listening experience of good music. Not quite the same thing.
 
Cjm75 said:
Are you saying that i should be trying to find out what the DR is on an album before buying it.
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Yes, if dynamic range is important to you, then I think that is exactly what you should do.

If you are buying a car, and are concerned about fuel mileage, you probably should check out the mileage numbers of cars you are interested in, instead of demanding that car manufacturers provide the best mileage possible.

We are not talking about peoples taste in music, we are talking about spoiling the listening experience of good music. Not quite the same thing.
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No, if the compression is the choice of the artist, then it is exactly the same thing. Saying Daft Punk shouldn't have compressed "Get Lucky" so much is like saying they shouldn't have used the cheesy Jupiter 6 synthesizer.
 
Julf said:
See:



The most basic effect, used by all electric guitar players, is compression. By choice.

The Internet and streaming have removed all need for compression to "ensure the tracks get airplay". These days the compression is there because producers (and musicians) want the music to sound loud.
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Where does your knowledge come from concerning the electric guitar statement?
 
Julf said:
No, it is a data point. There is nothing anecdotal about it.



Go and talk to an artist. Last one I heard discussing it was David Byrne.



Yes, I happen to know the difference. I am not talking about EQ. I am talking about compression.



You are entitled to your opinion - I just remind you that it was you who wrote:



I have provided examples that disprove your point of view. You might chose to ignore them, or declare them anecdotal.
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Random references with no evidence yet again, now david byrne, anyone can post quotes from artists, it's just your word mate without a link to this statement.
 
I'd say low profile tyres is a better motoring analogy. Quite appropriate for certain cars and drivers but thanks to fashion and expectation it became almost standard even though it reduces comfort in terms of ride and noise.
 
Julf

Can i ask, do you enjoy listening to music that has been compressed and limitered to death?

Or do you prefer a natural recording, well mastered??

I personally find the first option very fatiguing to listen to.

And find it very difficult to believe that any artist would want this!

Like many others in this thread i would love to see some evidence to back up your claims.
 
I'm still struggling to understand why an artist would play an instrument with expression and subtlety yet make a conscious decision to mask a lot of that in the final product. Granted the odd track, for effect, like Cher's use of Autotune, but why would a talented and skilled musician deliberately reduce his output to banality?

More likely, surely, that he is told "this is how we do things round here" and, having become used to hearing compressed music, knows no better?
 
Cjm75 said:
Can i ask, do you enjoy listening to music that has been compressed and limitered to death?
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Given two recordings that only differ in degree of compression, I would probably in many cases prefer the one with greater dynamic range, but out of the different parameters that seem to correlate with what music I like, dynamic range isn't one of the top ones. Absence of cowbell seems to be much more important.

And would find it very difficult to believe that any artist would want this!
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Almost all musicians prefer amps that go to 11...
 
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