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Loudness Wars, is the end actually coming?

C

Cjm75

pfm Member
I have for a while been hearing hints that the sacrilege that has been dubbed "The Loudness Wars" may in fact be coming to an end.

Some searching on the web brings back some very sketchy details, and I cant seem to find a definitive answer anywhere.

So, Ive let the cat out the bag, is the madness of sausage shaped waveforms coming to an end?

And if so, will they re-release all the albums that they have RUINED by Compressing a Limitering them to death?

Searched, but couldnt find any other threads on this, let the onslaught begin!
 
What loudness wars are you on about?

You heard hints from where

What sketchy details?

Sorry your post may have pleased you but it makes little sense. You do have a thing about wars though, onslaught and Limitering

Hope you find what you are looking for
 
I think the word is getting out. Music producers are starting to realise their deeds are being exposed publicly on DR Database - I think transparency is far more effective than 'initiatives' or campaigns. But still a long way to go.
 
I think Whatsnext must have been living in a cave if he doesn't understand what is meant by the term 'Loudness Wars'. He almost certainly hasn't been following any threads on here which mention the term. Or perhaps he has, but with bemusement, wondering what everybody else is talking about.

Or, just perhaps, he's having a dig at the OP, for reasons best known to himself?
 
darrenyeats said:
I think the word is getting out. Music producers are starting to realise their deeds are being exposed publicly on DR Database - I think transparency is far more effective than 'initiatives' or campaigns. But still a long way to go.
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Once they realize "DR" has become another audiophile fetish they might come up with a studio software plugin that artificially inflates the DR number while still allowing you to get that nice, loud compressed sound... :)
 
But in what way is DR an audiophile 'fetish'. Surely, you're not arguing that dynamic range compression is appropriate, or acceptable, in a medium with the DR of CD?
 
@cooky

I had a read of that document from Apple and it seems they are providing "tools" to enable producers to retain as much of the dynamic range as possible, which is a step, but do not actually seem to be stopping anyone from "uploading a sausage" if you will excuse the term :) And unfortunately I see the whole MP3/internet genre as one of the major contributing factors to the whole fiasco. I.E Boosting the levels through compression and limitering so that the masses can listen at louder levels on their ipod or whatever they happen to listen on.

@darren

I agree, the tide seems to be turning, but I unfortunately do not see anything written in stone to stop it from happening all together. Which would be the best outcome for everyone.
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
I think Whatsnext must have been living in a cave if he doesn't understand what is meant by the term 'Loudness Wars'. He almost certainly hasn't been following any threads on here which mention the term. Or perhaps he has, but with bemusement, wondering what everybody else is talking about.

Or, just perhaps, he's having a dig at the OP, for reasons best known to himself?
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Not sure Sue, thats a question that only whatsnext will be able to answer. But it seems I may have struck a nerve :)
 
Julf said:
Once they realize "DR" has become another audiophile fetish they might come up with a studio software plugin that artificially inflates the DR number while still allowing you to get that nice, loud compressed sound... :)
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Nice, Loud and Compressed are 3 words that I would ever expect to hear in the same sentence.

Thats just Blasphemy :)
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
But in what way is DR an audiophile 'fetish'.
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In the way that some people seem to think that a larger DR number automatically implies "better quality".

Surely, you're not arguing that dynamic range compression is appropriate, or acceptable, in a medium with the DR of CD?
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Surely, you're not arguing that dynamic range compression, as artistic choice exercised by the musicians and producers, is not appropriate, or acceptable?
 
Cjm75 said:
unfortunately I see the whole MP3/internet genre as one of the major contributing factors to the whole fiasco. I.E Boosting the levels through compression and limitering so that the masses can listen at louder levels on their ipod or whatever they happen to listen on.
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Sorry to say the roots go much further back - to AM radio and boomboxes. That made a generation of producers (and musicians) believe that was how it was supposed to sound...
 
Julf said:
Surely, you're not arguing that dynamic range compression, as artistic choice exercised by the musicians and producers, is not appropriate, or acceptable?
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Well, I'd be interested in any evidence that it is an artistic choice. It may be a commercial choice, by the producers or possibly their marketing department, to ensure the tracks get airplay and are usable in noisy environments, but I've never come across anybody who has tried to argue that it is an artistic choice, eg that's the sound they wanted and intended to produce, because it sounds best.
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Well, I'd be interested in any evidence that it is an artistic choice. It may be a commercial choice, by the producers or possibly their marketing department, to ensure the tracks get airplay and are usable in noisy environments, but I've never come across anybody who has tried to argue that it is an artistic choice, eg that's the sound they wanted and intended to produce, because it sounds best.
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See:

Julf said:
Talk to any (electric) guitar player... :)
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The most basic effect, used by all electric guitar players, is compression. By choice.

The Internet and streaming have removed all need for compression to "ensure the tracks get airplay". These days the compression is there because producers (and musicians) want the music to sound loud.
 
Julf said:
See:







The most basic effect, used by all electric guitar players, is compression. By choice.



The Internet and streaming have removed all need for compression to "ensure the tracks get airplay". These days the compression is there because producers (and musicians) want the music to sound loud.
Click to expand...


And at that stage in the music production compression is essential, unless you like to listen to guitar, or bass lines where the volume goes up and down like a roller coaster. Compression used to equalise instruments is not the issue, and is an essential part of music production.

Compression and limitering used to make artist A's track sound louder than Artist B's track is the real issue. And yes its roots go way back to the radio days. I would not have a problem with tracks being modified for broadcast, as long as the CD you buy is unaltered!
 
Sue Pertwee-Tyr said:
Well, I'd be interested in any evidence that it is an artistic choice.
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I thus present the very popular album "Random Access Memories" by Daft Punk, where the artists clearly care about sound quality and had pretty much unlimited artistic freedom. RD 8 on both the CD and the Qobuz Studio Masters download.

I won't even mention Nine Inch Nails... :)
 
Random Access Memories is disappointingly compressed in parts.
 
Julf said:
I thus present the very popular album "Random Access Memories" by Daft Punk, where the artists clearly care about sound quality
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I'm actually not against dynamic compression in the final mix per se. What I object to most is louder masters, trampling on the original intent.
merlin said:
Random Access Memories is disappointingly compressed in parts.
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I agree, it probably suits some of the tracks more than others.
 
Sorry Julf, but that's anecdote, not evidence. And two anecdotes doesn't really constitute a body of evidence. What about Elbow, and others who put references to Turnitup.com on their albums? More anecdote, contrary to yours. I want evidence that artists, properly informed of the effect of compression, make artistic choices to adopt it. Not talking about eq here, either. As you're aware, we're talking about the sort of compression which reduces the loudest bits, and boosts the quiet bits, so that the impact of the dynamics in the music is lost or at least diminished. done, in my opinion, for purely commercial reasons.
 
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