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Looking for turntable that sounds like a turntable and not a CD player or streamer

Hi,
These days I want a turntable that sounds like good digital with digitally recorded records (!).
With the bonus that I know my old 100% analogue records will sound fantastic.
Does this make sense?
 
Avonessence said:
..loved the Rega Isis when I got one of the first off the line (not got one anymore - that's another story in itself, I still respect Rega in what they do as well as true professionalism of Paul Darwin, a complete gent and thoroughly nice guy).
I had heard a Versalex getting on to be nearly a decade ago, can't remember what it sounds like now. Got a dem booked for a listen of a P8.
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It's very difficult. From listening to what you want from Vinyl, it's exactly the same as my goal and I still think you'd be very happy with a good LP12.

There is a big difference between how impressive something can be initially, or in a dealer dem, and what it's like to live with long term. When I first got the RP10 I was seriously impressed with it. In technical respects it was better than the LP12 in every way. It was cleaner, clearer, more detailed, had great speed stability, crazy low surface noise and just seemed far superior. There were things I wasn't sure about, it seemed lean and cold, but I assumed I'd be able to find a cartridge or adjust the set up and get it where I wanted. I fought with it for two years but never did.

I've heard the P10 in shops, sometimes sounding terrible but other times great but the times it sounds good it's playing a well recorded jazz record or similar. When you dem the P8 don't let them do that. Take the records you want to play, and not the great sounding recordings. Take the music you like that isn't well recorded.

So I decided to try another LP12. I hoped that if I could get the spec right it'd be happy with it, I expected to need to make a few changes but I was very blessed and got it fundamentally right straight out of the box. Well I built it myself but you know what I mean ;0) The scary thing about the LP12 is also its greatest strength. You can tailor it to exactly the way you want it to sound. You just need to know what you want, and I think you do, and know someone who knows how to build an LP12 to sound that way. With modern parts they are much more stable and consistent than they were years ago and sound great. There is literally nothing about the RP10 I miss. My understanding is that the P8 and older RP10 are very similar in performance by the way with the P8 maybe being slightly better.

I've never heard an Isis but I have a Saturn-R and I love it. What is weird is that it does not have the clinical, emotionless sound of the RP10. The Saturn-R makes you love the music, an LP12 makes you love the music, the RP10 made you impressed with the music but un-moved. I genuinely got more involvement from a P1!

So tread carefully. Don't bet the house on a dealer dem. Listen to an LP12 beside the P8 if you can but I'd be inclined to buy used kit so that you can live with it for a while and sell again if you don't like it. And don't let the bartwards play you jazz! That should be my tag line ;0)
 
stevec67 said:
Wow, you had some money. I was a similar age in 1985, we all dreamed of an LP12 and nobody had one, it was unattainable. Even my wealthy mate, whose dad was a farmer and who paid him for farm work, couldn't run to to that.
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I was welcomed to the world of interest free credit, just started my electrical apprenticeship. Nothing like getting ones priorities right, not! Wouldn't change it if I went back in time.
 
chartz said:
Hi,
These days I want a turntable that sounds like good digital with digitally recorded records (!).
With the bonus that I know my old 100% analogue records will sound fantastic.
Does this make sense?
Click to expand...
As a B&O owner, you should be used to different sources that sound consistent across the system! ;)
 
Hi,
These days I want a turntable that sounds like good digital with digitally recorded records (!).
With the bonus that my old 100% records will sound fatastic
Beobloke said:
As a B&O owner, you should be used to different sources that sound consistent across the system! ;)
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Indeed Adam, indeed.
 
Tony L said:
I just dropped a link to a classic old-school LP12 in the ‘interesting eBay auctions’ room. That should sound like analogue!
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A grand and it has a bent armboard and an aftermarket lid!

LP12 prices these days are crazy. Or rather they can be. People typically want a lot of money for ancient tat but mid-spec ones can be good value.

Got to hand it to the guy, he knows how to take a picture.
 
Mr Pig said:
It's very difficult. From listening to what you want from Vinyl, it's exactly the same as my goal and I still think you'd be very happy with a good LP12.

There is a big difference between how impressive something can be initially, or in a dealer dem, and what it's like to live with long term. When I first got the RP10 I was seriously impressed with it. In technical respects it was better than the LP12 in every way. It was cleaner, clearer, more detailed, had great speed stability, crazy low surface noise and just seemed far superior. There were things I wasn't sure about, it seemed lean and cold, but I assumed I'd be able to find a cartridge or adjust the set up and get it where I wanted. I fought with it for two years but never did.
Click to expand...
I understand, it's a tall order.
I may be completely disappointed in the end and stay with listening to music via YouTube source.

That's my worry that nothing has really moved on since the 1980's. Even the 2nd LP12 with Cirkus bearing, I got with Ekos and Troika then Arkiv (if that the right cartridge name), never really engaged me like the original LP12. My dad has still got his LP12 Ittok Karma from 1985, but it doesn't hit the spot to my ears, maybe it's all the aftermarket sub chassis, trampoline, top plates and arm board that have taken the engagement away.
I suspect at the back of my mind, the LP12 is too tweakable to ever allow me to just settle with one again, as it could lead down the road to wallet emptying hifi madness.

Thanks for your experiences with the Rega decks it is invaluable. Hey I may even listen to a P6, as most manufacturers sweet spots are near the middle of the range.

I can spot a contrived dem from a mile off (been in too many to count now), too overenthusiastic wanting to play their selection of music over mine, with "let me just alter something or change out a component" tactics etc., where they sense a dislike to what is being heard. I refer to them as Tweaking Fiddler's, lol

Lean and cold is definitely not a presentation I am after.
 
chartz said:
Hi,
These days I want a turntable that sounds like good digital with digitally recorded records (!).
With the bonus that I know my old 100% analogue records will sound fantastic.
Does this make sense?
Click to expand...
Yes it makes sense, most records are recorded using solid state mixing desks and stored on solid state drives, are these digital or just solid state, as in the valve and solid state technologies? Please elaborate.

But there again you can't polish a turd, you my old vinyl analogue records are poorly pressed, no matter how good a modern turntable is it won't change the rubbish in rubbish out.
If you want good digital from digitally recorded records, buy the streamed version, it's most often cheaper.
 
It's very personal obviously, but 'good' digital shouldn't sound digital either.... However I know where you're coming from.

My personal choice over almost 10 yeas now for the DAC/pre/Amplification end has been a Devialet 250. It bettered a Naim system I had that cost 3x as much. On the TT front I've just gone from a Rega P6/upgraded P3 with an Exact to a Vertere DG-1 (instead of a P10), and couldn't be happier with the result. It's like having a whole new collection of vinyl. I've also got a Velvet Vortex RCM to make the most of it.
 
Avonessence said:
My dad has still got his LP12 Ittok Karma from 1985, but it doesn't hit the spot to my ears, maybe it's all the aftermarket sub chassis, trampoline, top plates and arm board that have taken the engagement away.
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Yes, it has.

As turntables get 'better' they get tighter, cleaner more controlled and start to lose the flow, air and body that made vinyl so good in the first place. In the pursuit of hearing only what's on the record people fail to realize that not everything is on the record.

There is a sweet spot though. You can get high resolution without becoming too clinical. You can get lots of detail, warmth and fullness, low noise, good timing etc. You just need to know how.

A lot of people say that the P6 is the sweet spot of the range. I wouldn't know. I certainly prefer the budget Rega decks to the top ones. The P1 is a fantastic starter turntable, finds the fun on any record. You might find even a P3 is all you need. Diminishing returns is a killer. A friend of mine went to a dealer dem where the Majik LP12 was played against a Klimax one. He said that yes, the Klimax was better but nowhere near as much as you'd expect it to be given the difference in price. Turntables have their own sound signature and there is a limit to what you can do within that.
 
An older spec LP12 built by Peter@Cymbiosis to your spec and budget, he can "tune" it by choice of the range of parts he has to hand to the sound you're looking for.
A later spec sounds better, but is more aligned to being accurate and hence closer to the digital sound. An older one has the traditional warmer "coloured" bloom and richness loved by many.
 
Avonessence said:
But there again you can't polish a turd, you my old vinyl analogue records are poorly pressed, no matter how good a modern turntable is it won't change the rubbish in rubbish out.
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Yes. A turntable is dealing with very flawed records and the trick is to get the music out without highlighting the flaws too much. Most hi-end turntables are not very good as they sound great on perfect records but just shine a bright light on the problems with poorer ones.
 
Mr Pig said:
Yes, it has.

As turntables get 'better' they get tighter, cleaner more controlled and start to lose the flow, air and body that made vinyl so good in the first place. In the pursuit of hearing only what's on the record people fail to realize that not everything is on the record.

There is a sweet spot though. You can get high resolution without becoming too clinical. You can get lots of detail, warmth and fullness, low noise, good timing etc. You just need to know how.
Click to expand...
You've hit the nail on the head!!

Whether this can be attained in modern product is the question. Rega managed this, IMO, with first off the line Isis CDP.
 
You can get a good spec LP12 for £1500-2000 just like you could 20 odd years ago, I bought a 2nd one hand for around £1200 in the 90s.

The OP wants a good TT but the ‘not sounding digital’ bit is obviously less important.

Anything can become a money pit if you let it. Does someone who buys a P1 feel compelled to upgrade to a P10?

Never so much nonsense talked than about the LP12.
 
Avonessence said:
Yes it makes sense, most records are recorded using solid state mixing desks and stored on solid state drives, are these digital or just solid state, as in the valve and solid state technologies? Please elaborate.
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With a few exceptions most records are recorded digitally using a DAW such as Pro Tools.

Think of Pro Tools as being the tape machine.

Even if it's run through an analog desk the channel outputs will run straight into an ADC connected to Pro Tools.

It's all digital. That doesn't mean it can't sound fantastic.
 
Dem arranged for P3, P6, P8, Technic sl1210 on Monday.

Next to take a listen to a Versalex.

Has anyone got an unmodded 1980's LP12 I can hear in the Manchester area?
 
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